Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: squall78 Dec 2 2007, 05:27 PM

EPISODE NUMBER - 410
ORIGINAL U.S. AIR DATE - 12.07.07
STORY BY - Brad Wright, Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie
TELEPLAY BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie
DIRECTED BY - William Waring
GUEST STARRING - Torri Higginson (Elizabeth Weir), David Nykl (Radek Zelenka), Kavan Smith (Lorne), Chuck Campbell (Technician)
A mysterious drone crashes into Atlantis, indicating that the Replicators may have found the city. But when Elizabeth Weir appears, the team realizes that the probe is just a part of a bigger mystery.


The Big Mid-season Finale is upon on. The fate of Atlantis and certain characters will likely be determined.


Photos










Trailers and Previews

http://stargate.mgm.com/video.php?id=79

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=190813

Posted by: AlanSpider Dec 2 2007, 07:29 PM

I personally can't wait for this episode and the one after that, "Be All My Sins Remember'd". It's awesome that we get a winter break...but it sucks that there's no new Stargate to watch when I'm enjoying my winter break. Wait till Jan I guess.

Definitely awesome to see Dr. Weir again.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 2 2007, 11:37 PM

Sorry I posted this early, just wanted to get everyone hyped up!

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 3 2007, 12:06 AM

You bet I'm hyped up!!!!! I loves me some Weir/Repli-Wraith war!

Posted by: Sean Dec 3 2007, 01:54 PM

looks good to me.

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 3 2007, 03:56 PM

In the photo with the team, Teyla is there. She hasn't told her team yet.

Posted by: PuddleJumper67 Dec 3 2007, 06:26 PM

Very, very excited for the return of Weir. Here’s a preview for This Mortal Coil:

http://stargate.mgm.com/video.php?id=79

Posted by: chief8abug Dec 3 2007, 07:35 PM

GOOD! By choosing to keep mum, she still gets to go on missions....and secretly search for the whereabouts of the Athosians.

A girl's got to do what a girl's got to do! Can't have her sitting around, twiddling her thumbs all day, now can they?

Can't wait for Friday, though. I'm dying to see "This Mortal Coil." Huge Weir fan here and I can't wait to see her back at SGA.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 3 2007, 09:07 PM

I can't wait as well!! This is going to be a killer episode!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TallScot Dec 3 2007, 09:28 PM

Aarrgghh! I've got to wait until the 11th for this episode as we are running about 4 days behind you in the UK.
I don't suppose it's too bad...

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 3 2007, 09:39 PM

Wow, just don't come here on Friday so you don't get spoiled......

But I have no idea what they are going to do with an exact duplicate team but it looks awesome!!!

Posted by: SciFi-Girl Dec 3 2007, 09:56 PM

Should be interesting! We have seen time and alternate universe episodes before, AND I LOVE THEM!!!

I always was into those kind of shows.

Posted by: Miravanguild Dec 4 2007, 09:18 AM

If done well.... However they have been done so many times they can be a complete bore...

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 4 2007, 10:22 AM

Yeah, I love those kind of episodes, I remember growing up watching the cartoon Ghostbusters, they had an episode
called the Flip Side. It's interesting because SGA itself is sci-fi, but within the show, these alternate universe episodes
are basically sci-fi for the sci-fi!!!!!

Posted by: chief8abug Dec 4 2007, 02:46 PM

Say what?

Are you saying, SGA is an alternative universe on an alternative planet with multiple universes at it's disposal? Or are you implying that the scifi channel is a scifi meca where scifi hypothesis can be realized through a series of scifi shows?

Inquring minds are dying to know!

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 4 2007, 04:00 PM

It reminds me of that episode of "Charmed"...

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 4 2007, 08:17 PM

Sorry about that! I didn't mean skiffy, I mean sci-fi in general...

So in the world of SGA/SG-1 it is real to them, then when they find these mirrors or anything else that provides an alternate reality, that in itself is their version of science fiction.....

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 4 2007, 09:36 PM

Interesting way of looking at it - they actually have access to this sci-fi world, maybe even many fictional worlds. - I'd love to see a scene that's set in some alternate universe, with Jack O'Neill in his familiar house, sitting on the couch and sipping a cold one - while on his TV, he watches Sheppard, Carter, and a friendly looking Wraith named Todd (who's munching on a turkey drumstick) plan a mission to a mysterious planet called Earth.

But, on topic, This Mortal Coil looks like it's going to be an awesome episode, with twists that I don't even want to guess at. I can't wait to watch it! And I'm wondering if the whole episode will act as a sort of teaser for the rest of the season, with regard to the Wraith-Replicator (and Weir?) story arc.

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 5 2007, 02:45 AM

That would be AWESOME. Totally cheesy, and totally would have me watching it.

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 5 2007, 03:12 AM

LOL! "Cheesy" would be a compliment for that storyline.

But it's nice to have one discriminating viewer lined up!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 5 2007, 10:06 AM

2 More Days!!!

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 5 2007, 01:28 PM

You have been soooo excited about this episode, I think you were talking about this episode since season 1....

I am very excited as well....my DVR is going to explode with all the times I will be rewatching this....

Posted by: squall78 Dec 5 2007, 02:00 PM

Yeah it's going to likely be the determination of Weir's fate. Really exciting stuff.

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 5 2007, 04:31 PM

SOOOOOOO EXCITED!!!! I make sure I buy my favorite SGA episodes. Does anyone here use iTunes Store to buy the episodes like I do?

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 5 2007, 09:48 PM

What resolution are the episodes? Can you get them in HD format?

Posted by: AlanSpider Dec 5 2007, 10:54 PM

I don't use the iTunes store to buy any episodes...I just buy the DVD later. w00t. How much is an episode anyway?

Posted by: Daen Dec 6 2007, 01:48 AM

I've bought them on iTunes. Typically, shows are around $2 each if you get them individually or $37 for a whole season (which is how I got season 3 and 4). I don't think they're in HD, but I think the quality is fine. iTunes plays them on my high-res monitor 1680x1050 widescreen and it looks like regular TV to me. Plus, I get to port them to my iTouch and I can take them around with me. Good stuff for long commutes, when I'm not driving.

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 6 2007, 07:29 AM

Yeah, actually what Daen said. But what's also awesome is that they have both of the very first episodes for the cost of one! (So part one & two come together for only $1.99)

Posted by: squall78 Dec 6 2007, 08:59 PM

From Joe M's Blog...

Sounds good to me!

Posted by: Daen Dec 6 2007, 09:06 PM

I'm really looking forward to this.

The return of Weir and a replicant team? Woot!

Posted by: Sean Dec 7 2007, 02:46 PM

I can't wait. I took off work to watch =)

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 09:48 PM

I can't wait!!!!!

Posted by: Daen Dec 7 2007, 09:55 PM

10 minutes and counting to This Mortal Coil...

Giant comfy chair - check!
Pizza and hot wings - check!
Frosty cold soda - check!
Bathroom break taken earlier - check!
Remote control in hand - check!
Girlfriend also into SGA - check!
Dogs keeping feet warm - check!

READY!

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 7 2007, 10:04 PM

OMG IT'S ON!!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:05 PM

Zelenka: "What did you see, Rodney?"

McKay: "Nanite code. It's the Replicators."

Squee!

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 7 2007, 10:15 PM

Strange much lol freaky cool so far

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:19 PM

They're the fake ones!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:21 PM

I mean this McKay, Sheppard, Ronon and Teyla are replicators. They just don't know it. And they're in a Replicator Atlantis and don't know it. They're being tested to infiltrate the real Atlantis... and don't know that either.

At least that's my guess!

Posted by: Daen Dec 7 2007, 10:21 PM

*GURGLE!* That means ... (spoiler in white) maybe the real Carson never died! SQUEEEEE!!!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:23 PM

Hope so!

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 7 2007, 10:26 PM

awww does this mean theyr'e all going to die like most "alternate" team members...

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:31 PM

Okay, I'm really liking Replicator Keller a LOT more than I like real Keller.

And that's just bizarre.

Posted by: mahes1 Dec 7 2007, 10:37 PM

Well, if you open your mind...this explains why we can't get off of this planet...we, as a species, are dangerous to the rest of the universe, look at all the chaos we've created since we've started using the Stargate.....

Posted by: mahes1 Dec 7 2007, 10:40 PM

Yeah, I like her too!...too bad she's married....

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 10:42 PM

Hey, I was right! I figured the Atlantis that Carter saw destroyed in "Seer" was a Replicator Atlantis. Cool.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:00 PM

Holy frickin' cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 7 2007, 11:01 PM

Great episode....



I want more!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:02 PM

That was the BEST episode! I can't imagine anything I would have done to change it.... except make it twice as long so there was more of it.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 7 2007, 11:02 PM

Well.... that was incredible.... and I have to say.... we're screwed.

I'll have to come back on this one for my reaction... as I really don't know how to react right now.

Posted by: zzombie8 Dec 7 2007, 11:02 PM

Cool Episode

Posted by: mahes1 Dec 7 2007, 11:03 PM

Yep, we'll get ourselves out of it...we always do! Great episode!!!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:05 PM

LOL. Naw, there's always. . . uh. . . something. . . .

Yeah, okay, screwed.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:06 PM

This episode was just amazing. It was just so passionate. The emotions were great, and you really felt for the characters.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:07 PM

I love how they brought up Carson. Interesting. . . um. . . foreshadowing? *crosses fingers*

Posted by: andrewjay Dec 7 2007, 11:07 PM

Loved it!!! But unfortunately I think Weir may be gone forever. Her human side is gone, alone with the replicator copy. But then again could the replicators rebels have another Elizabeth somewhere? I'm not keeping my hopes up after Ford was forgotten. Your thoughts?

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:08 PM

Must've been a heck of a time for the actors. Playing something so emotional AND doing it double.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:08 PM

I was thinking that also or maybe the real Weir is really alive and these rebel replicators don't know the whole truth from Oberoth.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:10 PM

Oh, I'm not giving up. 1) We don't know whether the Weir double made it out of the jumper or not. They didn't show that. 2) Just because Replicator Keller said she was dead, that doesn't make it so.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 7 2007, 11:10 PM

Shep has looked really depressed lately.....

It looks like he's not having fun ever since Weir has been gone!!!!!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:11 PM

It's eps like this that make this show great.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:13 PM

That's what I was thinking. Replicator Keller didn't have to be lying in order for Weir to still be alive. Oberoth could have mislead her. He's not exactly one for open and honest communication in the hopes that a mutual exchange of ideas will benefit both parties and the universe as a whole. He's kind of a jerk.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 7 2007, 11:13 PM

I think they messed up somewhere, I'm going to have to watch my DVR now and make sure...

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:14 PM

Say, who wrote that ep? I was a bit distracted by the show and forgot to look.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 7 2007, 11:15 PM

That ending flipped me out.... ok, there's no way the Wraith have enough ships to take on the Replicators.... in 'Siege Part 3', by our estimation there was only about 60 or so Hive ships in the galaxy.

By the way it sounded, there was a whole LOT more Replicator ships than 60.... not to mention they're superior to Wraith ships in every meaningful way.

Alright Asgard technology. Time to do us some good!!!!! Cripes call up the Ori and tell them the Replicators are unbeleavers!

Posted by: Daen Dec 7 2007, 11:17 PM

Absolutely amazing episode, worthy of an A++!

And interestingly, it leaves open the possibility that: (theoretical spoiler in white)

The Carson that we knew in Season 3, ever since "The Return" (or perhaps before) isn't the original Carson. What if he is a copy, meant to be a spy - and the Asurans stole the real one because of his genius in creating the anti-wraith retrovirus? The real Carson may, in fact, be alive and whole, and it was a human duplicate that was killed in "Sunday".

This would also explain the teaser that Carson's return depended in some way on being a "victim of his own genius".

Posted by: Dymero Dec 7 2007, 11:17 PM

This episode is why I love the Pegasus Replicators more than the Milky Way/Ida ones. They've got so much more personality. Although, Replicarter was great, too, and to an extent, Fifth, though he was always whiny ('Love me, Carter, please!').

Anyone notice something odd, though? Aren't all the Replicators supposed to be fighting the Wraith? Now, I know that they can't all be in war ships at the same time, but these guys weren't even doing anything to help with the war effort. They all just wanted a way out of it.

Plot hole...or plot device? You decide...

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:18 PM

LOL. How about those guys in Missing? Give them some lollipops and turn 'em loose.....

Posted by: chief8abug Dec 7 2007, 11:18 PM

Hi *waving*,

A week ago, I was ready to pan the show. "This Mortal Coil," however, renewed my faith! This was a stellar episode. Very well written. There weren't any characters that were left out, the plot made sense, the dialogue was plausible and the premise kicked ***.

Replicators cloning four members of the SGA team, minus Beckett, was an OUTSTANDING scenario. Kudas to the writer, producers, scribes, and executives who gave a thumbs-up on this one. BRAVO Stargate Atlantis! Your team did good tonight!

I applaud the effort and it was much appreciated by this fan. Again, they did a wonderful job! I am, officially, impressed.

I must also point out that I enjoyed Dr. Zelenka and Dr. McKay's back and forth snipes. I enjoyed seeing Major Lorne again and I enjoyed Dr. Keller's replicator. It's amazing how interesting a show can be when characters, we seldom see (nor hear from), are given a voice. For some reason, these three characters sharpened the intensity of the show.

Allowing audiences to see other characters interact was a rarity and I hope they keep it up.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:19 PM

It's gonna be some WAR!! Cannot wait!!



Good points, you have to remember that...

Spoilers in white...

Carson never had his mind probed so they do not have his DNA to build a Carson clone. I think Carson, who btw is likely returning next season might have a different story arc. I am thinking Michael releated.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:20 PM

True! But if so: poor Carson! He'll have been practically tortured for over a year now. I wouldn't want that for him.

Posted by: Smallz Dec 7 2007, 11:22 PM

Well I dont think they have had an exact number. There is no telling how old the data was and how much in touch the wraith were with each other updating info. Plus they have their smaller ships to back up their hives. Also replicators can build ships fast. Remember those shipyards that were destroyed they are rebuilt and producing more ships and some may not be for combat.

Posted by: SciFi-Girl Dec 7 2007, 11:22 PM

I think the duplicates should have continued to play dead. It's possible they would have left them alone?

Maybe not.

Posted by: chief8abug Dec 7 2007, 11:23 PM

Hi again,

Did Brad Wright, Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie collectively write this episode? If yes, then maybe it's time SGA episodes were mulled over by a multitude of writers, instead of relying on one.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 7 2007, 11:30 PM

The credit says all three wrote the story.....

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:30 PM

I wondered who wrote it, too, but I can't find it on the official site. Wish they'd post it somewhere. I'm going to go look offsite. Maybe Gateworld will say.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:33 PM

Per Gateworld: WRITTEN BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:33 PM

Oops, sorry. Didn't see your post before I posted.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:35 PM

I have a little spoiler for everyone in white. It's not a plot detail spoiler, but it might give some hope...

Spoiler in White Text..

This is not Weir's last episode this season!

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:37 PM

I kind of figured. Good to read it in black and white, though. Er, white and. . . white.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:39 PM

This ep is just a reminder of how much Weir is needed. I mean the season has been great, but she just adds even more to it.

Posted by: zodden Dec 7 2007, 11:44 PM

great episode! I think this is the last we see of Weir. To say that Torri Higginson is not happy with the execs of this show would be an understatement as we all know. She is under contract for 4 episodes of season four from what I recall and beyond that I think its the last we will see of her.

Her character will be missed!

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 7 2007, 11:44 PM

I love the episode, well loved, up until they killed off the duplicates.... :s stupid very stupid, If they couldn't have them live then why even make them (the writers) just to kill them :s

My only problem with the ep.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 7 2007, 11:45 PM

We don't know they're dead. In fact, I'd bet they're still alive. At least some of them.

Posted by: Daen Dec 7 2007, 11:46 PM

Hmmm! Interesting... although, a couple quick points:

At the end of "The Return part 2", Carson was prisoners along with the rest of the team right before the Asurans captured O'Neill and Woolsey. It's possible that Carson was probed/replaced off-screen.

It's a longshot, and you're probably right about his return being more related to Michael, but that's what makes SGA great... they can keep us in real suspense with excellent writing!

Considering Michael, maybe Carson was kidnapped moments before the explosion... or he could be re-growing various Carsons in a big giant lab with a variety of partial-Wraith DNA, vis-a-vis Ripley in Alien: Resurrection. How horrific would that be - partial Wraith Carsons loyal to Michael, maybe some with partial memories, but all having the Ancient gene? How better for Michael to get back at the human who destroyed his Wraith "life" than by altering his retrovirus and making part-wraith near-clones?

Posted by: WraithFodder Dec 7 2007, 11:46 PM

Story by brad Wright & M&M
Teleplay by M&M

So brad Wright did take part in writing it, even if he didn't write the actual script

Posted by: zodden Dec 7 2007, 11:47 PM

We didnt see all the duplicates bodies in the jumper did we? I remember seeing Weir and John of course but what about the other three? Did anybody see them? If not maybe we will have a future episode with a duplicate. Remember the SG1 episodes where they were copied and then a few seasons later the copies had an episode of their own.

Posted by: Daen Dec 7 2007, 11:48 PM

Well, technically, we didn't actually see them die. And they are filled with those handy little nannite regenerators.

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 7 2007, 11:49 PM

Right....they seemed pretty gone to me

Posted by: squall78 Dec 7 2007, 11:55 PM

Oh yeah this season alone has had so much suspense and plot twists. It's amazing. I am not counting Weir out just yet. As per what you wrote, sounds very interesting.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 8 2007, 12:00 AM

Naw, I have faith. All we saw were bodies-- injured or passed out, not necessarily dead. Plus they have the ability to heal. (As evinced by that ugly gash they kept cutting across their palms. Jeez! Couldn't they have found that out in a slightly less drastic way? )

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 8 2007, 12:00 AM

Oh, look at that. On again. Huh. Imagine that.

Posted by: LinziDay Dec 8 2007, 12:11 AM

Love the sparring scene with Sheppard and Ronon.

Posted by: joebags Dec 8 2007, 12:26 AM

Too much time with sucky Keller, and not enough time with Weir, plus this was an old SG1 episode (forget the name), where viewers follow SG1 for half the episode before the team realizes they aren't the real SG1, but they have all their memories.

The more I think of it, the less I like this episode.

Posted by: netsez Dec 8 2007, 12:37 AM

Yeah, I figured it out right away, soon as Shepard healed I knew he was a replicator with implanted memories. I didn't know they were 'human' How did they create 'humans' with a 'soul'?

Posted by: shapeshift-her Dec 8 2007, 12:51 AM

I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned* the similarity between this episode and SG1 episode "Tin Man" (not to be confused with the current Oz reimagining).
But these clones were essentially human, whereas the Tin Man clones were machines. But both thought of themselves as the "real" characters.
I would have liked the replicator clones to have stuck around for awhile. The SG1 clones came back for one more episode before they were offed.
It would have been really cool to have a whole story arc with how the Weir clone fits in with everyone.

*Whoops, looks like someone did refer to the SG1 ep.

Yeah, sorry, but I just don't like the new doc, and I don't just think it's because she's taken the place of a beloved character. She's just so stiff.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 12:54 AM

LOL! I knew "Tin Man" was going to come up sooner or later. I think this ep took Tin Man's concept and made it a lot better.

Posted by: shapeshift-her Dec 8 2007, 12:58 AM

Yeah, I totally agree...which makes me sad that they aren't going to explore it further...or are they?

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 01:00 AM

Well like I said above, Weir still has one more episode. So maybe the copy will return. I'm hoping it's the real Weir who is not really dead. We did not see her die and the word of a replicator? Come on.

Posted by: Daen Dec 8 2007, 01:27 AM

Yep, I think the real Weir still has to be alive. In technological terms, she's practically a bridge between human and replicator, and what better tool would they have to study differences between beings with and without souls, so to speak? They've got a living experiment, too valuable to destroy. At least, if they're still interested in Ascension.

Another thing that occurred to me while watching the rebroadcast... the latter half of This Mortal Coil suggests to me that this whole thing might possibly have been an experiment by the Asurans. It's possible that the majority of the Asurans let some of their population go in order to let them conduct their "building of human copies" experiment. The conversations between Teyla and Ronon, and especially those between Sheppard and Weir's copy were straight out of existential philosophy. What makes a soul? What makes a person? That's exactly the kind of information that intelligent machines (or humans, for that matter) might want if they're studying ascension as a culture. And how better to do it than to get real answers from real humans, after setting up the "these copies are in fact human, and they have copied memories, but why aren't they really real?" situation.

Heck, it's also even possible that the entire "rogue replicants" was faked, and the Asurans were even putting one over on their human copies of SGA. The whole thing may have been planned carefully by the Oberoth just to get a piece of interesting technology smuggled into Atlantis, and they duped both the real SGA team and the SGA copies! Heh! Whatever the case, the January episodes will be must-see for sure! Oh what a web they've woven!

Posted by: Stonering Dec 8 2007, 01:40 AM

Liked the ep, but - in terms of how a base like Atlantis should work, it is ridiculous that we would not see the base commander making the significant decisions when strange probes come falling through the ceiling etc. Amanda Tapping's limited availability has hurt establishing Carter as a leader. Doesn't matter whether you prefer Carter or Weir; it is a matter of establishing a cohesive team and base.

Posted by: tazozeo Dec 8 2007, 02:07 AM

I did not like this episode. I thought it was going to be intersting and finally give us an idea of Dr. Weir's fate but it did not even give her enough air time. It was underwhelming. Sheppard's team seemed to give up on Weir so easily. There was no emotion. I was very disapointed.

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 8 2007, 02:36 AM

YES! Now that's what I call a mid-season finale!! Excellent, in my opinion. And yeah, it was similar to SG-1's "Tin Man," and yeah, I knew from the moment Lorne suggested that McKay get back to work on the gate that "our team" weren't really the originals, but who cares?? It was well played, all the way through. My only question - I thought replicators were formed from nanites. Obviously I'm wrong. Can anyone please fill me in on the origins and differences between the two? Thanks!

My favorite moments were any conversation between McKay and Zelenka and then when Ronon and Ronon Duplicate gave each other the stare down. I almost expected to see one start to snarl at the other!

I loved when McKay brought up Carson at the very end. It was touching, the way he still mourns the loss of his friend, and yeah, major foreshadowing there! Plus, I'm in the boat that says Weir's dead or she's gonna die in that last episode she's scheduled to be in, thus taking her out of the runnings for the returnee. No question in my mind - Beckett for the win!!



I agree. Even though Weir's coming back for one more ep, I'm more likely to believe that the replicators have created another copy of her to try the experiment all over again rather than her come back fully human. Surely this won't be the last we hear of the rebel replicators, the ones seeking ascension. It seems much more likely that she's being reconstructed to learn from again rather than her human self just hanging out in a prison cell, sharing barbs with Oberon. And at any rate, even if she is still alive cellularly, she's also still infected with nanites and the team wouldn't just let her come back. After all, she'd hardly be any different than the fully replicated nanite-made Weir, and that Weir wasn't going to be coming back to Atlantis.



I loved that so many secondary characters got a chance to shine in this episode! Keller makes a good replicator, in my opinion. She did very well as the hopeful character that only wishes to reach the next level of being (instead of playing a capable, genius young doctor with a "jaded" outlook). And Zelenka and Lorne really shone in this episode. Especially Zelenka. That guy steals just about every scene he's in. We need to see more of him!



I'm pretty sure I saw Ronon's duplicate body laying on the floor of the jumper. But I agree that it seemed kind of wasteful to have them all leave on the jumper. All they needed was one duplicate to fly the jumper as a distraction and the rest could go on fighting replicators and wraith for as long as it was possible for them to avoid detection by the evil replicators. It would be interesting to know, though, whether or not the duplicates really died at the end. If they didn't, it'd help explain how Weir will be coming back for one more episode (and still leave me hopeful of Carson's ultimate return!). I still think it'd be cool to see Weir take up the leadership role of the "good" replicators, but I think it'd be really cool to see her do it with an angry, slightly bitter edge to it.

I cannot wait for SGA to come back in January!!!

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 8 2007, 02:47 AM

I really enjoyed this episode. There was so much to like about it (from my POV, almost everything), and the few quibbles I have are really pretty minor.

Someone else mentioned plot plausibility and good dialogue as strengths. I very much agree, and found it moving that some of the Replicators want to be able to have a soul, and to ascend. The concept, of course, is as old as sci-fi (older, actually); and I personally don't care if it was done in a different way on SG-1. I liked how it was written for SGA. To me, what counts is an approach that's both fresh, and tailored to the unique circumstances of those who are in the Pegasus Galaxy. And, again, some controversy: Is "soul" merely one result of the brain's electrochemical activity, or are "mind" and "soul" both still-mysterious but compelling indications that the brain is in fact more than the sum of its parts? - The Replicators' views on this might be part of the ongoing storyline, or maybe not, but I'm glad that a very interesting philosophical issue was essentially the main reason behind everything that happened.

So now, we have more character development for the Replicators: we know they're not monolithic in their hatred of humans. (That may have been apparent before; I really can't remember. But this ep presented that issue in an unforgettable way.) - Does anyone remember any previous references to "Niam's group," those Replicators who split off from Oberoth and the rest? I just wondered if viewers had knowledge of them from before.

There were so many great scenes for character interaction, from Ronon's less-than-apologetic "I'm sorry" to John at the end of their training session, to Rodney letting his vulnerability show- just enough, not too much - to Radek, re. Elizabeth. The whole scene in the tent where "originals" met "copies" was very, very funny. Rodney shone - meeting his double was just too funny - and everyone else had just the sort of reaction you might expect. I felt satisfied with Ronon's role overall, and thought his dialogue was more consistent this time out in playing to his (and Jason's?) strengths. Elizabeth was excellent. It's great to see again what Torri Higginson can do with a meaty role. (And I loved that she got to be the one to say "We need a diversion.") Weir's intelligence and integrity was *so* well-written. John and Teyla, I thought, were overall very good as usual (not to take them for granted), and I thought that Repli-Keller was excellent. I felt that the "stiffness" remarked on in a negative review served a good purpose as the Repli version of Dr. K's kind of traditional physician's demeanor, and loved how Jewel Staite was spot-on with the subtle differences. - I really, really enjoyed Dr. Z, also as usual, and thought that Repli-Major Lorne had an especially good part. IMO, the show gets so much more interesting when the more secondary characters of the play (so to speak) are allowed to lend color and a different POV to the action.

Kudos to the editors and crew for seamless transitions between the times when Repli-Lorne was talking to Sheppard and the others in that group, and when Repli-Keller addressed the other group. Also, while the visual FX didn't quite blow me away, I thought some of them were quite good - loved the various views of the city on the sea, especially by night, and how a different tone in many scenes was set in part by a variety of camera and lighting effects.

I'm glad it was mentioned beforehand that Joel Goldsmith's score was outstanding. Having read about it, I paid more attention to it, and it really was incredible, very powerful in setting tone. - He's the person who composed the theme, right? - which I loved from the first, and - especially after the change in the intro - consider one of the very best TV-show theme songs I've ever heard. I think an expanded version of it would suit an SGA movie very well.

Great ending, with the camera fading to black, and then you hear Rodney say, "Oh, cra/p." It would've been funny if you hadn't known that the number of Replicator Aurora-class ships on the monitor screen must have just increased by a huge amount. It'll be so exciting to see just how things shape up in the second half. To use a football analogy (thanks, Indy ), the Replicators have incredible depth at every position, but the Lanteans are an amazingly resilient team. They can give you a lot of different looks on both offense and defense. They can seemingly pull miracles out of thin air, and they have a truly awe-inspiring will to win.

- In the "wish it had been done differently" department, it felt a few times like lines were assigned more on the basis of how many each character had, rather than who was best suited for a particular line. Also, a few times I felt like the direction and acting were a little weak in not bringing out the most effective performance in each scene. Like I said, minor quibbles, and just my POV in any case.

To sum up: Loved it!!

Posted by: spoilergate Dec 8 2007, 02:55 AM

Stargate Atlantis - SciFi Channel Updates Dec. 7 '07 - This Mortal Coil

SciFi Channel updates for Friday, December 7, 2007:

"This Mortal Coil"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0409&act=1

* Episode Synopsis
* Episode Photos


"Miller's Crossing"

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=0412&act=1

* Episode Synopsis
* Episode Photos



NEW New episode - "Be All My Sin's Remember'd" - Friday, January 4, 2008 -- Atlantis joins forces with the Wraith in an effort to to defeat the Replicators forever.

Guest stars include: Michael Beach (Col. Abe Ellis), Christopher Heyerdahl (Todd the Wraith), Niall Matter (Lt. Kemp), David Nykl (Dr. Radek Zelenka), Mitch Pileggi (Col. Steven Caldwell) and Jill Wagner (Larrin).

NEW Quizzes:

FRIENDS AND FAMILY

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/friendsfamily/index.php?start=1

Sure, you know the team members of Stargate Atlantis, but do you know their friends and families? Take our new trivia quiz and find out! (This was reported earlier, but the link just became active.)

Dec. 8, 2007

REPLICATORS

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/quizzes/replicators/index.php?start=1

The Replicators are one of the most dangerous enemies of the Atlantis Expedition. How well do you know this scourge of the Pegasus galaxy? Take our quiz and find out.


VIDEO INTERVIEWS

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/featurettes/index.php?Clip=9

or

http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=192658

Dec. 6, 2007

In part two of her video Q&A series, Jewel Staite (Jennifer Keller) fields a few more fans' questions from SCIFI.COM's Stargate Atlantis Forum.

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 8 2007, 03:05 AM

I also think that would be an excellent take on Weir, as a rather disillusioned leader of the "good" Replicators. Like you said in another post, Elizabeth comes off very well with a bit of a dark side to her. But I thought she was also very affecting in her more vulnerable moments in this ep, so I love that we got to see a good actor's versatile performance.

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 8 2007, 03:18 AM

LOL! And the funniest part of that scene was that that Ronon was still smiling when he apologized! Or the line later,
"Last night, Ronon hit me in the head."
"By accident. Sort of." *shrug*

Also, I agree with you about the subtle differences you mentioned in Keller's acting, especially in the beginning when she was still trying to pretend to be the real Keller. The transition from her talking to Sheppard to her talking with Lorne was creepy, to say the least.

I also thought that the real McKay's reaction when he first saw Weir on the screen was wonderful. He was so excited. You could tell that he was still feeling the guilt over activating her nanites in the first place.

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 8 2007, 03:41 AM

Yeah, that had me chuckling. Ronon very obviously likes being a martial-arts trainer - maybe except when he's up against Teyla. - No need for him to ask Shep if he'd been practicing; the Lt. Col. looked pretty good.


It's good to hear from a kindred spirit on this matter. To me, especially in the second viewing, she seemed very creepy and very sinister with her different personalities for Lorne and for Sheppard. Also, I thought she and Lorne were very effective as co-conspirators.


I didn't think of his guilt re. the nanites, so thanks for bringing that up. It makes sense. - All these characters are developing so many great layers.

Posted by: moob Dec 8 2007, 05:03 AM

It was almost a good episode for me...

Everything was just fine until the last 10 minutes (very predictable, but still very entertaining). Then it feels like the writers just phoned it in to find a way to get rid of the clones.

Um...if Keller said they'd be able to track her, wouldn't it be a logical assumption to believe that they could track a huge frakking ship? And if you use that little bit of common sense, wouldn't you abandon the ship on some other, useless planet and then gate to the planet that you need to be on?

Then, if the Replicators would supposedly shoot at the first thing that moves in the trees, how the hell were the clones able to, not only lift off in a jumper, but fly right by two Replicator ships? It seems that if they were cloaked to begin with, they probably could have just slipped past.

And why would the Replicators need two huge ships to chase down one jumper? One should have given chase while the other remained guard at the gate. It stands to reason that your enemy would use some sort of diversion to distract you while others got away, and the replicators aren't idiots. Speaking of which, why didn't they just scan the planet for life signs? And if they did, they'd know there were more people on the planet. Or better yet, just blow the living hell out of the Stargate...it's not like they needed it.

But then you have to ask the question...why the hell were they all in the jumper in the first place? Weir could have gone back to Atlantis. Hell, 4 of them could have gone back to Atlantis...or to some other planet if they didn't want the security risk. They only needed one person to fly the ship. Unless their way of proving they're human is by uselessly killing themselves...

That ending just completely ruined it for me. They threw all logic out the window just to find a way to kill off the clones.

Bleh...

Posted by: n55501204 Dec 8 2007, 06:29 AM

It sucks that Weir is dead, but she could still come back as a duplicate, who will be later cleaned of the replicator nanites. The way the duplicates died sucks big time! They didn't all have to go, only one man is needed to fly the jumper, not a whole 5 people!
What sucks the most is how SGA repeats SG-1!! They should finally get their own story to develop, not repeat the same stuff over and over!
And another flaw of this season - how are they intending on making Carter a loved lead character in SGA if half of the episodes don't have her at all?!
I don't think I like this season so far. Although some episodes were very interesting and there were some interesting twists which I'd love to see developed, they made too much mess for me to like the show like I did before. I want Weir fully back and I want more Wraith! Besides I want the wraith recreation explained

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 07:58 AM

This is actually common practice. Go to Joe Mallozzi's blog from the last few days. He explains how all the writers are usually involved in every episode in some form. Joe Mallozzi was the chief writer for the episode, but it was Brad Wright's original idea.




I'm sure I saw Weir knocked out, McKay's head bleeding severely, and of course Sheppard. I don't remember seeing Teyla or Ronon.




I think Keller's acting was brilliant in this episode and intentionally stiff! Hello, did you ever stop to remember that she was playing a Replicator!? Her subtle changes to the Keller character were perfectly pulled off.





I have a new theory on this, wouldn't it be sweet if - at the end of 'The Last Man', the REAL Weir returns, somehow being involved in the major changes to Atlantis that happen in the season finale....



HOLD ON THERE my friend. Having Carter in this episode would have made no sense. She couldn't have been in the first half of the episode at all because when Weir was captured in 'Lifeline', Carter wasn't the commander of Atlantis yet! There was only a brief scene at the real Atlantis, and with the commitments to 'Ark of Truth'/'Continuum' it would not have added much to the episode to have Carter on. We DEFinitely see Carter in the next episode though



Be patient my friend. We'll be getting a lot of what you want about the Wraith coming up very sooooon.


Anyway, upon 2nd viewing, I was absolutely amazed at this episode. The music score was incredible. The energy behind this episode was excellent, and something that was so uniquely SGA that going back to watch SG-1 is almost a completely different feeling now. Loved the psychological dilemmas that dominated this episode.. i.e. what constitutes a 'soul'? Kahanabay summed it up very nicely in their first large post on the previous page

Cannot wait for BAMSR!!!!!

Posted by: Nightroad Dec 8 2007, 09:25 AM

I really enjoyed the show, but the complaints you have are pretty much the exact complaints I have.

How in the world would all of them be on the stolen ship and not think there was a tracking sensor onboard? You have the greatest minds of Atlantis there and they can't think of at the very least removing it?

Also, the SGA team that I know would have left the ship they stole on another world and then gated to a few worlds before bothering to contact Atlantis. They would NOT have made such a rookie mistake, I promise you that.

I was also sad to see that all of the team had to get in the jumper and "die" needlessly. They could have simply put Weir or Ronon in the jumper and send it off, if not simply set it on some sort of auto-pilot. The benefit of having double members far outweighs the downsides that I can see. TWO RODNEYS, COME ON PEOPLE.

As for the whole gating back to Atlantis thing...give me a break. Why did the Replicators not put people on the ground? They obviously have trouble hitting a moving target, as shown with the Shep Wier scene...

I have another question too! Would the Replicators not be able to look at the last address dialed from the gate and find the location of Atlantis? Did no one think of this?

The ending, while enjoyable, was completely unbelievable to me. There were so many simple mistakes made by both teams that I simply cannot believe it.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:03 AM

Wow I didn't think about all this when it happened, I guess a good night's sleep is all you need! This all makes sense and I do agree about the jumper, why did everyone go? From my initial impression, I thought WEIR was the only one going to fly the ship to limit casualties, then when it crashed we find out that all of them decided to come??

Also, they should have flown away in the jumper, let the ships chase them, and then cloaked themselves, instead they let them continue to spot them and shoot them down...


On a side note, it would have made sense the very first thing for the Replicators to do was to beam troops to guard the gate, then do their hunting with other personnel....

Posted by: PissedoffVulcan Dec 8 2007, 11:19 AM

They all went to prove they were not like the replicators.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 11:23 AM

There was one thing that confused me, if the replicators probed their mind back a year ago in Progeny, wouldn't Sheppard and co think Carson was still the CMO? Maybe they used Weir's recent memories from "Lifeline" to create memories of Atlantis for everyone? Does that make sense? Mckay even questioned that it should be Carson as CMO. Then RepliKeller said they used the memories of the most recent captured team member, Weir.

BTW, loved the references to Carson in this ep, not just once but twice!

I think the real Weir is alive. Oberoth was too fascinated by Weir. It's possible she may be in a coma somewhere on the Replicator homeworld!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 11:26 AM

They weren't! That is why I could of accepted a cloned Weir. She was alive, Flesh and Blood, and if you deactivate the nanites she would be regular human who needed to heal regularly.

The scene with Sheppard and Weir was just very touching. John was willing to accept that this Weir could be the real Weir, but Weir was convinced that she would never be treated like the original. Some pretty deep stuff there.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:27 AM

Yeah it almost felt like the references to Carson were actually for the fans!!! It's SGA telling the fans after all their hard work....
spoiler:
that he's coming back so thanks for making a big deal about it....


Anyways, what I would have liked was to see Ronon and Teyla the replicator versions have different hair styles. I'm sure it looked different a year ago.
But that is just nitpicking....

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 11:33 AM

I Think he is def coming back, and it will be perhaps a recurring role. Sadly I could only see Weir in some guest spots, like a Bra'tac or Jacob Carter. Which I would be cool with, I just want to know she is still active and out there. I don't believe she is dead. Someone was lying to the repliKeller or she was lying herself.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 11:37 AM

LOL, Squall I love how you answered your own question up there about the mind probing.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 11:38 AM

And I also loved all the Carson references! BRING ON KINDRED!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 11:45 AM

LOL, I tend to do that. But that is correct right? I hate to see a flaw, then all the people will be like oh plot holes this and plot holes that.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:47 AM

I know this is OT but I just watched QA with Jewel and Wraithfodder got 3 questions asked!!! wow!!

Half the other people I don't even recognize!!!!!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 11:49 AM

A few folks just signed on here to ask questions. Sad they never returned since their questions actually got answered. lol!

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:50 AM

How about a rule saying if you are mansquito status, you can't ask questions!!!

It would be nice to see familiar faces asking questions...

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:55 AM

haha I just watched the Joe Flanigan interview, good job Squall, he made fun of your name!!!!

Posted by: Smallz Dec 8 2007, 12:07 PM

It is correct. Sheppard thought he found a flaw in what they were telling him saying carson would be there but the replicator keller told him they used some of weirs memories

Posted by: Cantinflas Dec 8 2007, 12:11 PM

It seems to me one or another of the series programs on SciFi has used this title before. Anyway, whatever, the plot isn't so new--the show most resembling it was one of the VOYAGER episodes where the Voyager crew turned out to be a bunch of clones created by a living planet. They were following up on the Voyager's mission when they began to experience disappearance anxieties. The viewer thought it was the actual crew. At last they started realizing they weren't who they seemed to be.

On this show they caught onto it right off, so that's a variation on the theme.

I felt a little sorry for the Replicators in their attempt to acquire soul and ascension. If they want to achieve that, they should, but their other goals and their means to this goal should be thwarted. It kind of reminds me of when some of the Cylons showed they had religion. There's a lot in common besides sf in the themes of some of these shows.

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 8 2007, 12:47 PM

lol he told him to get a new handle

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 01:01 PM

Yeah I'm beginning to have a difficult time separating John Sheppard from Joe Flanigan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: PissedoffVulcan Dec 8 2007, 01:36 PM

I liked Carson me and my son were fracking mad when they killed him. But I like this new doctor Carson needs to play Scotty on Star Trek now.

Posted by: marielabbott Dec 8 2007, 01:59 PM

This is the episode I’ve been waiting for all season…and to say that it was a disappointment is an understatement. Not being a SG-1 fan, I’m not familiar with the episodes everyone else is saying it is a copy of, but I have seen the Star Trek: Voyager episode where a duplicate crew doesn’t know they are duplicates and then realizes it. They also die in the end. It’s not an original concept and I found it dull and predictable.

When Torri finally appeared, it was great to see her. Her presence on screen is palpable, as is her chemistry with the rest of the cast. I was even impressed with her scenes with Jewel; I think they were Jewel’s best so far, and I’m not a big Keller fan. But, in a simple line, we discover the real Weir is dead. Yes, perhaps there will be a twist later this season (which would be fantastic), but as repliWeir states, why would repliKeller lie? To have a favorite character offed in such a way, and to spend the rest of the episode watching a copy, is depressing. I think it’s a disservice to the character and to the character’s fans.

I sort of liked the final scenes with Radek, Rodney, and Sheppard. I say sort of because they were powerful, emotional, and wonderfully acted, but I think there was a missing scene that really should have been included. Sheppard states that he’s going to approve the removal of Elizabeth’s personal items…is that all the closure we’re going to get? Whatever else I thought about Sunday, I found Carson’s funeral touching and moving. Don’t you think Elizabeth Weir, who has led Atlantis for three years, saved the city on more than one occasion, and assembled the rest of our beloved expedition deserves a memorial service? Even if the twist is to bring the real Weir back, it would have made that twist even more surprising. More importantly, it would give the audience at least a semblance of closure. And don’t you think the other Atlantis characters—who consider her family—would want to honor her in some way, to stand united in their grief before they internalize it and we probably never hear of it again? Even if it was a three minute scene, it would have added powerfully to the episode to have that grief and angst hanging over everyone’s head as we discover the presence of the Replicator ships, because as it was, the cliff hanger did not spark my interest in watching the next episode.

It was great to see Torri again, but all around, this episode was a major, major disappointment.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 04:45 PM

Wow, to give this episode an "F" wow o wow. No comment!

Posted by: LihtKarmaDjinn Dec 8 2007, 04:46 PM

The replecators could sssooo obveously operate a jumper by remote control.

The ending when they escaped from the replecator was sssooo fishy...... I dont think it went down like that. lol just kiding.....lol.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 04:50 PM

Hey forgot to mention. Who thought the music score was done very well? The mood music was perfect. Really added a lot to the episode.

Posted by: Subjekt2323 Dec 8 2007, 05:19 PM

I hated the part of the ending where the clones died (if they did), how lame was that?
Far below par! Otherwhise a pretty entertaining episode if you are in the mood for some SGA.

Posted by: BoardWalker Dec 8 2007, 05:28 PM

I don't mind recycled ideas in science fiction. In fact, I like it. That way, every different story can put out their take on it.

Stargate SG1's clone episodes were much better than Atlantis's (unless the clones aren't dead) It was an abrupt ending without much explanation. I actually rewound to the scene inside the jumper's with the bodies, to see if you could see them all (you can) I was really hoping that at least Ronon wasn't there. I don't think it's at all believable that he would have willingly gone to his death for seemingly nothing.

I much prefer the idea of a vaguely renegade team of clones who can never go back to Atlantis, but nevertheless contribute to the fight in the galaxy by going on some type of mission.

Posted by: KourtTears Dec 8 2007, 05:40 PM

I was a bit disappointed by this episode. I loved it, really I did, but at the same time I think the audience got cheated out of something really important. Namely, Dr. Weir's death. I could have conceivably accepted her death if it was done in a different way. The fans invested 3 years in to Dr. Weir as the leader of Atlantis and for us to hear that she died with no more explanation that what was given was a total rip-off. If she's going to die then she should have died on-screen or in some heroic way. Not by being killed off by Asurans because she was too dangerous. I felt very let down by this part of the episode.

That being said, if I ignore how we were informed of Dr. Weir's death then I can safely say that this episode rocked. It was so much better than the episode where SG1 met with their doubles. SG1's doubles were robots and, from what I could gather, SGA1's doubles were humans built by replicators (Matrix anyone?) with nanites in their system. So, they are human but they weren't made in the conventional way. This just opens up so many doors and I'm really hoping the doubles aren't dead but I would really like to see the writers of Atlantis revisit this topic. Plus the interactions between the characters was amazing. And McKay and Sheppard's reactions to hearing about Weir seemed so real.

One last thing about Dr. Weir's death and I'll be done. I can accept her death if I must but I'm really hoping she's not dead. It would be a nice twist if she were alive, and I'm totally okay with her becoming Atlantis's new Daniel Jackson, the man who wouldn't stay dead. I'm also really hoping that the writers and creators of Atlantis respect us enough, and Dr. Weir enough, that if they do kill her off (assuming she's not already dead) then they'll do it right. Something on-screen where she's saving the galaxy. She deserves that much and I think we do too. After all that though I have to say, "Please don't let her be dead!" And please don't kill her off if she is alive.

Endnote: Did anyone else almost cry when Sheppard saw Weir for the first time and whispered her name? Joe Flanigan is an amazing actor!

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 8 2007, 05:43 PM

They did try to cloak after the replicator ships saw them. However, the second after they cloaked, they got hit by a blast from the rep ships and my guess is that the cloaking device was damaged because then they reappeared.



Okay, here's where I'm confused (and I forgot to VCR it so I can't watch it again to check), but I thought when Repli-Keller said that Weir was dead, they then completely reconstructed her from nanites as they did the rest of the team. Is that correct? Did I remember that right? And I'm still confused as to how our repli-team all showed up as life signs even though they're constructed completely out of nanites. Shouldn't they still be machines? I mean, regardless of their human emotions and thoughts, their mechanical construction should still not be cellular, right? Another question relating to the nanites and replicators. Weir originally got the nanites from Niam. Also, in the episode "The Real World" when Weir's body was taken over by the nanites and she was in a coma-like state, McKay and Beckett explained that the nanites were replicating in her body, sort of like a last-ditch effort to survive. If the nanites came from a replicator and the nanites themselves do replicate, doesn't it stand to reason that the nanites are what form human replicator forms? I remember from one episode where it was mentioned that the replicators were born just as they are now, but that doesn't mean they just sprung up out of thin air. They had to have been born out of something, right? Aren't those "somethings" nanites? And all this really just boils down to my question of what is the difference between the human nanite forms and the human replicator forms?

Posted by: moob Dec 8 2007, 05:44 PM

The C+ rating is mine...lol

Would have been like an A- or B+ if it weren't for the ending.

Posted by: artemisn9 Dec 8 2007, 05:54 PM

I loved this episode!!!!! I've already started the count down to January. Question, when will the rest of the team find out about Teyla's pregnancy.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 8 2007, 06:10 PM

LOL, yeah I agree about the clones being killed. But the episode overall was really good and entertaining. The acting was real and you really felt the character chemisty. Plus, Weir's fate is still undecided. We never saw the "Real Weir" killed. Oberoth could still be keeping her alive for info, and the other replicators don't know. Plus, Torri has one more episode this season. So we shall see.

I think the F's are for what happened to Weir. I understand that, but it still was a great episode. I just hated like you said, that they killed off the clones so fast.

Posted by: The Memory Dec 8 2007, 06:11 PM

Next season as Rachel's belly grows lol (yeah if you didn't know it was written in because Rachel is pregnant) On a side note I just had a slight epiphany as I was writing this... Teyla's pregnancy probably hasn't been addressed since we found out because the scripts were already written with out it. We'll see more in the second half of the season.

Someone asked at some point(too many long posts lol) why Carter wasn't represented in the replicator version of Atlantis...

Well, They found out about Keller from Weir and Weir didn't know about Carter. So since she joined the show as a result of Weir's "death" we didn't see a clone...besides...she's already been cloned enough...well maybe one more...for me lol

Something I haven't seen brought up was the scene with both McKays. I thought that was great! The two cuts meshed together perfectly and were HILARIOUS!

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 8 2007, 06:49 PM

How Would you rate this episode?
C - and not even Elizabeth's presence can change that

First half of Season 4 is done. How would you rate the 1st Half of Season 4 of Stargate Atlantis?
C+

Do you think Dr. Weir will return?
Yes - she better ... I'm frellin' fighting for it. Save Elizabeth Weir!!

Where you shocked with the outcome of this episode?
So so

Favorite guest/recurring Characters for "This Mortal Coil?
Dr. Elizabeth weir

Do you think the Replicators/Asurans have become more interesting after this episode?
No

Can you accept a Clone/Copy Weir?
No

*******

And so I have watched TMC...

First word that comes to mind to describe the "highly anticipated" episode of the first half of season 4:

BLAND



positive points:

* giggled....
- every time Rachel was on screen.
She looks so adorable... and big.
So, do the others finally know or are they assuming Teyla's been eating like a horse lately?
- Ronon kicking Sheppard's butt
That was some nice fighting.
- 2 Rodney's
If only we could have kept the other one. The Atlantis IQ would have skyrocketed.
- Rodney's "Oh *****..." at the end

* smiled...
- seeing Elizabeth for the first time
I really, really miss her presence. Torri was fantastic, though she didn't surpass her superior acting in Lifeline.
- Sheppard & Sheppard meeting
Not as much fun as the McKay's
- Ronon talking about his duplicate and the other way around
- Rodney and Radek in the lab

* everybody had some time and was used one way or another

* the city can handle itself without Carter
We really don't need her around. That much is obvious. It's not like she's contributing to the story anyway.

negative points:

* this was a story with potential, unfortunately the potential was wasted big time. It was bland to say the least.

* killing off Elizabeth Weir off-screen ... that's the way to do it - NOT!!

* if you want to keep up pretense, try not to use different clothing. Even though the replicaters in charge of the experiment didn't know about the whole costume change... It kinda spoiled the fun out of it, if there had been fun in the first place.

* I came || this close to turning the episode off. But Lizzie stopped me from acting on that impulse.

* "highly anticipated", yet it did not deliver...

Posted by: GATEGOD Dec 8 2007, 06:53 PM

the episode was great, the ending is what sucked

Posted by: firsTraveler Dec 8 2007, 07:13 PM

I still don't buy the replicators motivation. From what we've seen elevated beings it just doesn't seem like that big a deal, certainly not from a nano-species perspective.

Posted by: Legend0 Dec 8 2007, 07:36 PM

A few things about this ep bugged me.

They hitched a ride on the Replicator ship to the Replicator homeworld. The gate on the Replicator world is in their Gateroom. So how did the team magically get from the Replicator world to the world with the SG team? They stole a replicator ship? Off screen of course. OK, I'll buy that.


RepliKellar said they couldn't raise the shield because they used to much energy creating the team. However just before that she said to Weir they would wipe their memeories and move to a different planet and start over. They were planning on moving due to the Replicator probe that found them. Not enough power to raise the shield, but enough power left to move the city to another planet?

There were several smaller things that I had problems with. Once I got past the sparkle and dazzle routine, I realized this was a poorly conceived and written episode. And it pains me to say that.

Posted by: Nightroad Dec 8 2007, 07:44 PM

Did anyone else expect the Ronons to fight each other to see who was strongest? I was totally expecting that to happen and was sad when it did not.

Once again I will state that I wish we could have kept the second team. How cool would it have been to see this second team go out and do their own missions to try and take out the Replicators? I can imagine that whole team becoming hardened under the constant hardships they would endure. I keep imagining the second Rodney becoming a hardened scientist much unlike the Rodney we know, but still very much the same. I can picture our Rodney meeting up with him again and being simply blown away by what he could potentially be under the right circumstances.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 08:09 PM

I feel no pity for the Replicators. I strongly believe in the power of the human soul. And the replicators are right, it's the 'special' ingredient to humanity, and something they could never understand. Life, imo, can never be reduced to mathmatical certainty as the Replicators were trying to sell it.



I totally agreee Squall... an F? Wow, I always scratch my head over just how amazing this show has to be for some people. Go watch Flash Gordon to realize what we really have with SGA.

And as a music major, I also do concur that the music and moods were perfectly set up by Joel Goldsmith. He gets better and better every year, especially when he discovered he actually can use choral effects.... woot!




Wrong my friend. Rachel has already had her baby. She was pregnant for all of Season 4's filming and had her baby just a few weeks after the conclusion of filming for Season 4. The writers/producers already knew about it early on, and they DID write it into the episodes originally. But, the 2nd half of Season 4 will definitely be centered around Teyla's pregnancy.

Yes, the duo McKay scene was brilliant!

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 8 2007, 08:49 PM

Excuse me while I laugh myself to death here. You really believe that?

Posted by: JediTank Dec 8 2007, 09:08 PM

Weir is dead, they finally informed us officially..the replicator will be intersting as far as trying to become more human..I like the story line but I still have a hard time with machines becoming self aware and trying to be more human (which intails a soul conciousness) even going back to the Terminator movies..I still enjoyed them tho as I will enjoy this devlepment.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 09:09 PM

Wow, everyone should read Joe Mallozzi's description of this episode in his blog today. It explains all the controversial points people have been raising in here. Makes a lot more sense to me now why certain things were done the way they were!!!!

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/12/december-8-2007.html

Posted by: Daen Dec 8 2007, 09:11 PM

Gah! Angels and ministers of grace defend us from such a fate!



Yep, was awesome.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 8 2007, 09:12 PM

Go read what we know about Kindred on Gateworld and then cast your comments.

Posted by: xron18x Dec 8 2007, 09:45 PM

This episode was ok it was nice to see Weir again, but the story left a lot to the imagination. We currently don't know if Weir is actually dead but i guessing she is because machines don't lie. Also even though a second duplicate team would be nice it would cause to many continuity issues , with later episodes. And besides who needs that anyway one is more than enough, an about how many times do we need to be reminded that machines can never ascend?
The ending of this episode was crazy, why would the replicators being as smart as they are build that many ships wouldn't it be easier to build a smaller fleet of ships that are better armed?


I also have one more qualm why do the ancient (replicator) ships lack firepower, you mean to tell me that humongous ship doesn't have any other type of weapon other than drones?

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 8 2007, 10:07 PM

As everyone are saying their views about SGA's fall season finale, here's mine (What do you think?):

1. DOES NO ONE SEE TEYLA'S BELLY? Seriously, her stomach was huge (and the writers tried to hide it behind computers and have her wear a large jacket, but Rachel looked soo cute). I mean no one said anything about it which was weird and I was wishing that she and her repli-copy spoke together about the "situation".

2. Why would they just kill Weir like that? I mean... that hurt to know she's dead and no one told the team.

3. Where is Carter? It would have been cool to see Repli-Weir and Carter meet. They didn't have Carter as her real or replicator self. Weird.

4. McKay is good, BUT TWO ARE WAYYY BETTER!!! Those two acted like 10 year old twins, it was funny!! But when I saw that blood that came from his head during the crash, I felt little sick and sad...

5. In a sense, Atlantis did fall, just the fake one (thank goodness!!) Repli-Keller had to die when it collapsed (Or did she?) [No, seriously. I'm kidding, I don't know if she did]

6. [Another Teyla situation] If Repli-Teyla was also pregnant, doesn't that mean that they would have to make Repli-Athosians? (If her lover she was with is Athosian) WAIT............., DOES THAT MEAN HER BABY'S FATHER IS NOT ATHOSIAN!!?!?!?!?!?!? OMG!

7. Have we've been tricked? Have we been seeing the episodes of the lives of the Real SGA team or the Repli-SGA team?

Over all I liked the episode. I just wished more questions were answered and more cliff-hangers were created. Because right know, my brain is working over-time trying to piece this together.

The Replicators may be among us...

Posted by: chief8abug Dec 8 2007, 11:08 PM

Hiyah babe *waving*,

Answering Teyla214's questions....

Answer to question 1:

I hadn't notice the bulge, to be honest. The first Teyla (from Atlantis) was wearing a combat harness, bullet proof vest, and ballistic plates. She also had the front tip of an MP5 positioned in front, obscuring my view. The second Teyla (from the replicators) was wearing a bulky uniform that also hid Teyla's pregnancy. So, my eye wasn't easily drawn to it. Though I did wonder why the replicated Teyla didn't pull the real McCoy to one side and inquire about that baby. I wondered if the copied version felt cheated, as it dawned on her that she was no longer pregnant, and never was.

Answer to question 2 and 3:

Weir and the replicated team all decided that it would be better if they acted as decoys in order to allow the real SGA team to escape through the stargate. Their sacrifice was their way of becoming more human. As for Carter, she wasn't apart of the SGA team when Shep, McKay, Ronon, Teyla, Weir, and Beckett were scanned. Since they had no access to her brain wave pattern, they couldn't clone another version of Carter.

Answer to question 4:

The two McKay's was absolutely TERRIF! I totally agree. Though, I also liked his interaction with Dr. Zelenka. Yeah, but cheer up, buddy! The version of McKay faced down in a puddle of his own blood had replicators swimming in his system. He can heal at rapid pace, like Sheppard. There's always a possibility that he's alive.

Answer to question 6:

The replicators scanned Teyla's mind (or was it body) to clone another version. Since that information was taken prior to Teyla's pregnancy, the clone was built before she concieved. Also, they said it took a lot of energy for them to create the SGA members. I guess they didn't have enough energy to create the baby as well; just enough to upload their memories into the replicated version. Though I wonder why the replicated version didn't say anything about it.

Hope that helped!

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 8 2007, 11:09 PM

You are correct! I just watched it again and saw they tried to cloak!! I still think only one should fly the PJ and let the others go back to Atlantis...

Posted by: LihtKarmaDjinn Dec 9 2007, 12:11 AM

Why didnt any replecators stay behind and prevent them from escapeing thu the stargate they had to of see their life sings were still their when the jumper made their run it and they split up it was unnecesary for the replecators to all chace the jumper they could have let some their to guard the gate. did they have a computer glitch or something. cause it looked like they let the atlantis team leave.....

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 9 2007, 12:17 AM

Goldsmith's score really was fantastic. The music and sound effects made an invaluable contribution to the atmosphere - and I thought that atmosphere was a major part of a very strong episode. - The choral effects are amazing! Loved how they were added to the score.

The scene in which The Team met their doubles was wonderful. McKay almost stole the entire scene, but I also loved how Joe F. delivered this line: [pointing to Shep's double] "He made ... I made a really good point...." LOL! Always the strategic thinker, always the mental chess match with McKay. The two Ronons silently measuring each other's mettle and giving an unspoken challenge - that was great. Teyla and her double both remaining withdrawn from each other, an enigmatic moment that I'll look forward to reading about in Joe M.'s blog (if he addressed that one specific thing). I thought it was all a very well done focus on character. Subsequently, Weir's character really shines as her double shows the strength and the intelligence that Elizabeth clearly had all along.

The ending is something else I really want to read about in Joe M.'s blog. My sense (after watching the ep's second airing) was that a lot more was going on there than I could readily process. I have some guesses, and am eager to find out if any of them are right, or somewhere in the ballpark, or completely off-target - in which case my assumption is that Messrs. Mallozzi and Mullie came up with something most excellent that would never occur to me. (That's *not* apple-polishing; it's just accepting the simple fact that they [and the rest of the SGA writers/producers] have risen to their current positions for a good reason, and that it makes sense for me to give them the benefit of the doubt for what was truly a very, very good episode.)

Posted by: eod Dec 9 2007, 02:14 AM

The latest eppy, and the final one this year, was a little dissapointing. After all the lead in, the doppelganger crew just give up and died without further trouble. God what a wasted opportunity. Think, two complete crews; 2 rodneys (god what a horrible thought), 2 Teylas, one preggers, one not. The possibilities were endless but the writers killed them off in one quick scene.
I am a little dissapointed about the attack on Atlantis too. Much was made about the seer prophecy of Atlantis being destroyed, now we find that it was a duplicate model made by the replicaters.
The doppleganger idea was good but the writing was not worty of the acters.

Posted by: Lucy Dec 9 2007, 03:31 AM

I like this episode because of Elizabeth Weir.
The whole season is boring except episode one, two and thisone. And I hope Weir isn't really dead.

Posted by: Road Scholar Dec 9 2007, 03:42 AM

They didn't actually show them getting killed, so this is one of those open ended things. How many times have we seen the SGA team in a no win situation and manage to pull a success off. It would be a shame to just end them here and now when there are so many possibilities with how they can be utilized. One can hope they there is more to come.

Posted by: TorreyH Dec 9 2007, 09:43 AM

Bravo! Best episode of the season so far. Jewel was amazing, showing so much of what she can do, and Torri was very good, too. Good writing, and all the cast did very well. If the series keeps up this level of quality, it will have as long run as SG-1. I *don't* think Weir is coming back - both the human and cloned versions are dead now. Any future clones would be from the Replicator mainsteam - inherently an enemy to humans. We need to face it - she's gone. The good news is this resistance movement within the Replicators - they could be crucial allies in the fight ahead.

Posted by: StargateSG1fan1 Dec 9 2007, 09:51 AM

SO is it me or do we just keep getting all the stories from SG1 thrown back. The replicators were created in the Milky Way and the exact same thing were created in Pegasus by the Ancients. And this last story, does it not seem like Tin Man from SG1?

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 9 2007, 10:57 AM

Again I ask... You really believe that?



Or Double Jeopardy. The fuzzy replicaters wanting to learn about ascension being the Tok'ra version of the PG. Sounds like someone did a copy and paste with the scripts.

Posted by: furlingofdoom Dec 9 2007, 11:10 AM

No, it's not just you. It's sad really. No wonder the producers/writers have to butcher the cast all the time to keep this show somewhat fresh. They don't write anymore. They just adapt SG-1 scripts to SGA. Their creativity ran out a long time ago.

On the other hand, we still don't know who the Furlings are.

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 9 2007, 11:34 AM

I doubt we'll ever do.

Posted by: furlingofdoom Dec 9 2007, 11:36 AM

I know.

Posted by: Wingbones Dec 9 2007, 02:26 PM

C.

I do not except the clone Weir. An into of a clone of Weir is not the return of Weir. Me no like.

That really flattened th episode for me. I dont like the whole -clones are the same as original- cr@p all together. I'm with Ronon on that.

They sure did reveal the vision a lot faster than I thought. I thought they would hold off and milk it for all the fanboy/fangirl potential it had. hmmph.

What I did like the most was the awesome uniforms of the Replicator soldiers. Top notch. Kudos to the costume folks.

overall reaction: {harumph}

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 9 2007, 03:13 PM

Seems like a pretty shallow opinion, imo.



Yes, I do believe that. They're not going to just forget about the Athosians. I just think it's going to be focussed on mostly at the end of the season.

Reading Joe Mallozzi's blog about 'copyging SG-1 scripts was interesting. His opinion, and I agree, that there are many 'neutral' science fiction topics. It's how each show does science fiction topics that makes them all unique. If anyone thinks this episode had a 'Tin Man' feel, then I totally disagree. These were entirely different circumstances and very uniquely Atlantis. I applaud Joe Mallozzi for realizing that science fiction isn't about coming up with something new constantly, but all about interpretation!

Posted by: FiveSeasons Dec 9 2007, 03:57 PM

For art direction alone, this episode gets an "A". Where else can you find sets and special effects like you get on a weekly basis with SGA? The replicant Dr. Keller changing into another form was terrific and the shot of the SGA crew jumping through the stargate as the replicant ship moved overhead to chase the decoy jumper was beautiful. This show really is, for me, the best sci-fi show on t.v.

I DO have questions however, about the structure of the replicants. When Sheppard and crew scanned Atlantis they found only four life-forms - themselves. Yet they ended up being replicants, too. How was it explained that they registered as life-forms? How were the replicants able to construct the crew so accurately and completely only using Weir's memories? The replicant crew had fully-functioning memories. How did that happen? How are the replicants able to build so quickly? Do they sleep?

Loved seeing Weir. She really has a commanding presence and such believability. I hope that the PTB will keep her around and that she can be the achilles heel to the replicators.

Posted by: Subjekt2323 Dec 9 2007, 04:28 PM

The were flesh and blood, real humans, but created by replicators. As for their memories? well perhaps they werent as indentical to their older twins as they thought.

Posted by: esperenze Dec 9 2007, 06:21 PM

The Repliteam were organic, flesh and blood. they were cloned from the originals DNA and had nanites and memories implanted.

I liked this episode ok, I do think that the writers need new storylines though. I kept waiting for Repliteam to fly off and start doing their own missions. Or it could have been the launch episode for the next SG tv show. new show same team.

I don't think that they could replace Weir with a repliwier, I don't think that she would ever have the respect and authority that the original one had from her teammates.

I think that the Beckett we know is dead. However, Micheal did something to him in "No man's land". Maybe that has something to do with his return.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 9 2007, 07:08 PM

The memories of the team were taken from them when they were probed in the season 3 episode 'Progeny' when they met the Replicators for the first time.

The remaining memories were filled in from the probing of Dr.Weir in 'Lifeline'.

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 9 2007, 07:32 PM

But an opinion nonetheless.



They have "forgotten" the Athosians for a season and a half. A mentioning will be a lot more than no mention at all, but focussing on it? That I've got to see to believe.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 9 2007, 07:48 PM

So I am about to watch the episode for a 5th time. I dunno looking for clues to maybe the real Weir is still alive. I just love how the episode was done. It was one of the best for the season.

Posted by: brown34 Dec 9 2007, 08:36 PM

I was thinking that this episode was missing Carter in the final act. Once the story came back to the real Atlantis, there should have been a scene of Carter making the call about how to handle the duplicates. Also, I would have liked to have seen a Carter-Clone Weir meeting, kind of like a Kirk-Picard meeting. But I was reading the Mallozzi blog where he says she would never go off world, so it would be a waste to use her just to make the call about what to do.

Do you all agree that in this case Carter would not have gone off world? Even to meet a clone Weir? I don't know. Although if the writers say so, it must be.

So this was Carter's vision from the episode with the seer? Strange that her vision should be about a situation she had nothing to do with.

Posted by: Daen Dec 9 2007, 09:30 PM

Heh, I just watched it again as well. One little tidbit stood out for me, although it wasn't directly about Weir.

At one point, Rodney points out to Repli-Keller that "one year ago, Carson Beckett was our chief of medicine, not Dr. Keller, as she hadn't even arrived yet". Repli-Keller replies that "this scenario was updated with information" obtained from Weir.

Wouldn't that mean they made a copy of Carson, but put him into stasis or storage, just like Weir was when the copy-team found her on the table? After all, the word "updated" -and the fact they apparently wiped their memories and started over at least once- suggests there must be a copy of Carson somewhere on that base. Maybe he awakened while they were destroying the rebel replicator base and the copy-team left him behind!

Another interesting thing... repli-Keller told Weir that "a few of them" managed to avoid being re-programmed by Oberoth, and remained "hidden in the collective" which is how they ended up on this planet making copies of the SGA team. Why then destroy these rebel replicators instead of re-programming them? It's not like they were hidden... but maybe something in Rodney's altered base code gave at least some replicators "independence" in that they apparently can't be re-programmed? If they could've been reprogrammed, Oberoth surely would have done so, right?

And since the replicators can now kill other replicators, did Rodney essentially give them not only independence but also the one thing that allows them to choose what is good and what is evil: free will? Arguably, "free will" is the thing that allows awareness to become consciousness, lends to the understanding of self-vs-other, and a sense of self-awareness that leads to the unobservable sense of an unchanging "I" (or a "soul") that is different from the mind (what one has learned). The beginning of true sentience, not just programmed action?

Posted by: squall78 Dec 9 2007, 09:56 PM

Interesting about Carson. But the ones who were Flesh and Blood copies were the ones who had their minds probed in Progeny. Carson was not there.

Also in regards to Weir just read this on Joe M's blog...

http://josephmallozzi.blogspot.com/2007/12/december-8-2007.html

I think Joe is saying that the real Weir is still out there alive.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 9 2007, 10:01 PM

I usually watch each episode that airs a good 5-10 times over the weekend.....


There is nothing that says ANY of the replicator SGA team is dead. They end it with one of the troopers shooting Shep, but you don't see it.
Plus the nanos can heal him anyways, even if he did get shot....

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 9 2007, 10:05 PM

Well I hope they actually KNOW and have a direction with Weir instead of what they did about Ford...

With Ford, it was an easy, "let's drop him off on a hive ship, make it explode and never really answer if he comes back.."

I don't want that to be the situation with Weir....

If Weir is dead, go watch Rising Part 1 when she gives the speech before they all cross the gate, don't tell me you don't feel sorry for her
knowing she will be dead in 4 seasons...

Posted by: Daen Dec 9 2007, 10:46 PM

I know... it's a reach. But the replicators did have direct access to Carson in "The Return".



I hope so!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 9 2007, 10:53 PM

I want to see Sheppard standing over Oberoth with one of those Anti-Replicator devices, and when Sheppard is about to fire, Oberoth tells him Weir is still alive. Hmmmm.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 9 2007, 11:01 PM

They have Carter scheduled for 14 episodes this season. I think it came down to which episodes she would have the most impact in, and if she only came in for one scene for 'This Mortal Coil' it would have wasted 1 episode they could have utilized her much more in. But you're right... it would make sense to have Carter go off-world for this one, but I think we have to get used to Carter in a 'leader of Atlantis' role rather than the SG-1 Carter we're all so used to.



Yeah, I don't think Carson is involved with the Replicators at all. I think it was Joe who also said in a recent interview that they 'planted the seeds for Carson's return' at the end of Season 3, but 'no one caught on to it'. Boy am I licking my chops for the return of Carson!

I also agree that Joe M. is suggesting she's alive! He's definitely hinting at something!! Gosh I hope so!
I do not underestimate Oberoth in any way. The Replicators think only stratigically and Weir is just too important to kill off.

We don't know who's lying either.... is Oberoth lying to the rebel-replicators... or are these rebels the ones that were lying about the fate of Weir?? Either is possible! Gosh I love mind-spinning episodes! This episode gets better and better in my mind. I don't think I've had to think about so much in an episode in a long time! So many moral dilemmas on top of all the stratigic dilemas!

Posted by: squall78 Dec 9 2007, 11:33 PM

People say the fans reactions don't influence the writers and producers that is so False. Take Heroes and Flash Gordon where both producers have admitted to screwing up and plan to try and fix it. If a lot of fans have such a powerful reaction to Weir, she'll be returning. Just like Carson. It has to be a wise creative decision but in the end, it comes to a business decision and if it will keep viewers and perhaps gain new and regain old ones.

Posted by: SciFi-Girl Dec 9 2007, 11:43 PM

It's possible that all he did was stun RepliShep.

Posted by: Daen Dec 9 2007, 11:53 PM

Yep, it'd make more sense to study them.

Posted by: shapeshift-her Dec 10 2007, 12:43 AM

The repli-Team definitely exhibited free will.

Posted by: Daen Dec 10 2007, 01:46 AM

Yep, but I meant the rebel replicators themselves. The copy of the team were biologically human, so they didn't have programming (other than having copied memories).

Posted by: dad123 Dec 10 2007, 06:57 AM

the one thing this episode did was you can see from a mile away,the chemistry between Weir and Shep.that doesnt exist between him and Carter(i like her) and i dont think it will ever exist.I think it was a mistake to bring her on this show.This episode was great because,with Elisabeth,you had the feel of a older SG-A.it felt like the band got back together.

Posted by: dad123 Dec 10 2007, 06:58 AM

What main character got killed?

Posted by: Teyla214 Dec 10 2007, 07:08 AM

Sorry for not writing back sooner. I had originally made this a post and for the life of me couldn't find where it was moved. Thanks for the info!!!! I am just sooo amped about the new episode Jan. 4!!!! I could fly to the moon! (And then search the galaxy to see if there IS an Atlantis up there!) *Waving back to you!*

Posted by: Falcon Horus Dec 10 2007, 07:36 AM

I think he/she means Elizabeth here. Can't think of anyone else at the moment.

Posted by: Miravanguild Dec 10 2007, 09:25 AM

Carter doesn't fit... Some women are meant to command, others give advice based on sound science and are professional and take orders.. That is Carter, that has always been Carter.. That is the chemistry that doesn't work here, she was never meant to be in command.. They didn't make that mistake on SG-1... Even with her promotion, they brought in Ben to command those missions...

Posted by: dad123 Dec 10 2007, 09:43 AM

Yep,she is always going to feel like the outsider here.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 10 2007, 09:46 AM

Yeah totally agree, it felt like classic SGA, lol. Classic, it's only the 4th season, but you know what I mean! Anyway this is why Carter was not in this episode. Two reasons, they probed the real Weir's mind and they only had memories up to "Lifeline" which was Sheppard as acting leader, and two it would of lost the character moments for the 4 original castmembers, and Ronon who came on in Season 2.

I just hope the producers see that Weir is still needed to be around. Def not every ep but she needs to be in multiple eps next season.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 10 2007, 10:22 AM

If they can get Weir in 6-7 episodes out of the 20, I think I can live with that. Of course she would have to have major screen time in those
episodes....

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 10 2007, 10:58 AM

I'm sorry... I don't think I get ya? I guess it would be Weir... I'm pretty sure that's what that was about.

In any case, I don't think the real Weir is dead, and until I see it, I'm not believing it!

Posted by: dad123 Dec 10 2007, 11:07 AM

i was responding to the person that was acting like a main character gets killed every week.the post i was responding to must have been taken down and your post was next in line.The only one(that we know) is Dr. Beckett and that was last season.I dont believe Dr. Weir is dead.I also have a feeling about Dr. Beckett,the way Rodney and the the other scientist(i always forget his name) were talking about him,i dont think we have seen the last of him.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 10 2007, 11:14 AM

Hey Dad123, cool avatar, you believe I bought the original Season one on DVD!

Posted by: dad123 Dec 10 2007, 12:29 PM

Thanks.I have to and i am 33.

Posted by: SetMaat Dec 10 2007, 01:38 PM

It is a very good episode, but I don't like to see another SGA team like replicators.
If Elisabeth Weir is now a replicator I would prefer that she creates a new team of replicators but I don't like to see a copy of SGA team.
I think she could be a very good ally from SGA team.

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 10 2007, 01:49 PM

In THIS MORTAL COIL, they said that Shep,Ronon,Teyla and McKay were actual humans with nano's added later.

So then who or where did they get the human bodies from??

Posted by: Sean Dec 10 2007, 02:22 PM

The episode was good but lacked a little, I thought they really botched the whole (foresight of the ancient city being destroyed) Kind of gave us a cheap thrill. anyway cheers to a great season

Posted by: StargateIndy Dec 10 2007, 04:43 PM

I agree, I've mentioned this before. Until we see the how everything turns out, we won't know yet if they botched it. The attack could still happen..

But once the dust settles, and the attack doesn't happen, then now we're question what exactly are the abilities of the Seer....

Posted by: Legend0 Dec 10 2007, 09:31 PM

They said that they were constructed by nanites from the inside out. Some nanites remained in them in order to make repairs as needed. They didn't need bodies.

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 10 2007, 09:53 PM

You know, this just doesn't make sense to me, though. What did the nanites use to construct cells? If they truly are human with machines in them rather than human machines, the nanites have to had used organic tissue. Surely they can't reconstruct DNA using non-organic material. Hmm, or maybe, now that I'm thinking of it, they might have just used some other animal bodies and reconstructed them, like what Joe was saying in his blog about the belt and steak.

Posted by: SciFi-Girl Dec 10 2007, 10:08 PM

They could have used Weir parts.

Posted by: Legend0 Dec 10 2007, 10:37 PM

All they would need is a big pool of proteins to construct the cells.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 10 2007, 10:55 PM

The answer to your question is a very complicated one and one I can't fully understand, but from what I know about nano-technology is this: The nanites are essentially nano-tech, which means: nano-technology is a new practice of manipulating atoms at the atomic level, and forming them into any combination you can think of. It's very complex. But theoretically, the nanites would only need atoms in general, not necessarily 'organic' matter to begin with, to manipulate billions upon billions of atoms until they would form into dna, cells, etc.

Talk about advanced... what 'This Mortal Coil' proposes is way beyond anything modern technology as we know it is... but it's certainly theoretically possible. And the Replicators would certainly have that intelligence.

Posted by: Daen Dec 11 2007, 12:39 AM

Depends... maybe they built the proteins - chain by chain, from base molecules. In theory, if you had the patterns, biochemistry know-how, lots of raw atomic materials, and zillions of molecular machines on a mission...

But honestly, they didn't say how they built the clone-copies, other than repli-Keller saying "from the inside out".

Posted by: kahanabay Dec 11 2007, 02:46 AM

I know that in reality, we've created new (but not very practical, IIRC) elements using particle accelerators; but if I understand you correctly, this is touching on the type of elemental creation that hasn't been seen since the Big Bang. - But, since I have trouble understanding this kind of thing, maybe my reasoning is faulty. If so, I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

But if all that is in fact the case, it's just ... astounding. Mind-blowing. Even if it's only theoretically possible, the theory is enough to make my jaw drop.

Could you please post the names and/or URL's of some source material(s)? It would be fascinating to read more about this subject.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 11 2007, 08:36 AM

The ending of 'This Mortal Coil' was chilling to me. There are way more Replicator ships in the galaxy than I, or Atlantis, expected to find. But, now that Atlantis can track the replicator ships, do you think they have a chance at eliminating them? What role do you think the Wraith will play in all this?


Josh K.
An Official Team Stargate Member

Posted by: Daen Dec 11 2007, 01:07 PM

I'm trying to remember how they got rid of the replicators of the Milky Way... wasn't it an Ancients' machine that they activated while opening all of the stargates simultaneously - that way the anti-replicator effect would hit all planets in the Mily Way at the same time?

I sort of wonder why they can't do the same thing here... unless the machine is too big to move to Pegasus (or copy), or maybe it's still under the control of the free Jaffa? Maybe they could reconfigure the effect so that they don't have to move the machine but it dials all of the gates in Pegasus rather than in the Milky Way. That'd seem to solve the problem.

Or was the machine destroyed? I forget...

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 11 2007, 02:47 PM

Unfortunately, the Dakara Super-Weapon as it's called was destroyed by the Ori, or more specifically, Adria in the Season 10 episode 'Counterstrike'. A very sad day indeed.

The 'weapon' was the original 'creator' of life in the Milky Way galaxy, and acted like a giant reset button that would end all life and start over in the Milky Way if it was reactivated. What they did to the Milky Way galaxy replicators in the episodes 'Reckoning 1 and 2' was reconfigure the device so it would match the replicators 'life signature' instead of organic life in the Milky Way so when activated it would destroy all the Replicators in the galaxy at the same time. Incredible episodes.... esp. w/ Daniel getting into the mind of Repli-Carter.

Posted by: Cantinflas Dec 11 2007, 08:15 PM

They seldom use the same solution twice. Although they did suggest exploding a sun again in one episode, since it had worked on the Goa'uld warfleet.

Posted by: TeylaOwnz Dec 12 2007, 12:14 AM

[off-topic]First off all, Hi to everyone
Im kinda new to the forum so i just try to fitt in [/off-topic]


Seeing so much rep. ships makes me wonder how long it will take for them to find atlantis.
What i like to know more thou is how atlantis is going to stop all of them
Maybe in the second half we will actualy see some good spacefights who last a bit longer then 5mins

I was indeed a bit dissapointed seeing it was just a fake senario but then again it dous open some more options for the future imo.

I hope Teyla's character gets a bit more attention in the second half of the season.

Posted by: Daen Dec 12 2007, 01:27 AM

Ah, that's too bad. Maybe they'll figure out a way to build from that prior solution, though. If they did manage to destroy all of them at once, they'd have a nice fleet of brand new Lantean warcruisers to use against the Wraith.

On the other hand, I imagine that the war will likely take the form of Wraith vs. replicator wiping each other out. The SGA team may find that a lot of human worlds have been purged of life already. Sad, really.

Posted by: Phaoxx Dec 12 2007, 05:53 AM

If Dr. Keller was the 'leader' of the replicators who want to ascend wouldn't it have made more sense for her to pretend that Sheppard had a wound on his head and just put a bandage on it rather than say that he was fine and that nothing was there. She's a replicator, she must know that they heal quickly. It seemed a little silly to me. I liked the overall idea but the way in which they approached it was sloppy. I thought anyway.

Posted by: Smokestack Dec 12 2007, 12:06 PM

This episode was ok but the writing was abit poor.

The entire script was based on recycled material, some of it several times over in Stargate itself and dozens of times in general scifi.

Not one of my preferred episodes this season, gave it a D+.

Posted by: IlluminatiManSciFi Dec 12 2007, 03:38 PM

Also why did all (4) of them have to be in the Jumper, why not just one of them? Also with that city destroyed, what
about the SGA teaming coming back and checking out the wreckage for the ZPM, or other jumpers or maybe even
a Aura Class ship?

Penn

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 12 2007, 05:35 PM

I'm pretty sure Sheppard could've felt that his head was no longer hurt and bleeding if she did.



Joe said in his blog that all four were in the jumper because they were planning on escaping, not dying heroically in a hunk of metal. Also, I'd just assume, and well, you know what they say about assumptions, but that the ZPMs were all depleted from both making the nanite replicates and as a shield against the replicator weapons for as long as possible. The team's probably a little wary of going back anyways since they know that the evil replicators are aware of that city. Heck, the evil replicators might have even taken control of that city itself, which would make any attempted return by the real team very dangerous.

Posted by: AscendedTauri Dec 12 2007, 10:00 PM

I thought about that also. Actually, for a good part of this episode I thougt, 'Hey! This would be a great opportunity to get another ZPM. After all, all they have is one that is ike 80% full and another one that's almost depleted. Three full powered ZPM's power Atlantis and that's what we really need. I hope at the end of 'BAMSR' that we get at LEAST another couple ZPMs. But, the problem w/ trying to retrieve the ZPM from this fake Atlantis is that most of its power was used creating the duplicate team.

Posted by: squall78 Dec 12 2007, 10:24 PM

Maybe they survived the clones. Do Replicator guns kill or stun? I would think Stun. Since they need to do a little mind probing.

Posted by: LexaPierce Dec 12 2007, 10:25 PM

That is a good question IlluminatiManSciFi. Why were all of them on the ship.
I don't believe that they didn't think they were going to die Zygoptera, because
before they got in the ship, didn't Weir say that they needed a distraction, so in
a way wern't they sacrificing themselves?

Posted by: Zygoptera Dec 12 2007, 10:34 PM

Right. That was what I was saying. The replicators were planning on escaping, NOT dying in a hunk of metal.

Posted by: LexaPierce Dec 12 2007, 10:51 PM

Come back Weir come back!

Posted by: sgcstargater Jan 15 2010, 01:39 AM

and following @ 2 am EST