Did Deep Space Nine Copy Babylon 5 Rating Options

[ZoryaEatsCylons]

I was thinking the other day DS9 copied a few character names for example in DS9 we have Gul Dukat in B5 we have Dukhat I wonder if Rick Berman did that by mistake.

[wickedsteve]

The debate continues.

http://experts.about.com/e/s/si/similariti..._space_nine.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/captainoftheexplorer/mhb5.html

5 years before the premiere of either show the producers pitched B5 to paramount & others, who weren't interested in any non-Trek Sci-Fi. Then myseriously they hane an idea for a Trek show about a space station near a hyperspace transfer point.

[whahaa]

battlestar?

[USAFPhoenix]

Well, there's no denying that there are similarities between the two shows. But I think, once you get past the overall concept of the backdrop being a space station, the similarities end. As for Gul Dukat, and Duhkat, I suppose you could argue that the names are similar, but the characters couldn't be more different. Not to mention, Duhkat wasn't even present in most of B5. Just mentioned briefly in some eps, and only prominent in the "In the Beginning" B5 movie, and only then, early on. I do think that once the DS9 producers saw how effective the serial storytelling of B5 was, they decided to go with the serial storytelling of the Dominion War. Pure conjecture of course.

[whahaa]

everyman captain who becomes spiritual leader: Sisko (Emissary) / Sinclair (Valen)

feisty female second in command: Kira Nariz / Susan Ivanova

annoying doctor: Bashir / Franklin

enigmatic god-like good-for-nothings: Prophets / Vorlons

supposedly insurmountable enemy: Dominion / Shadows

[JLDGv2]

B5 and DS9 were similar but split early on - in the Trek universe telepathy/empathy/esp was shrugged at and in B5 it was a major thing(at least for the Earth Alliance). IMO B5 was better because DS9 was wieghed down with the Trek name and it's negative implications (treknobabble mostly) - storywise DS9 is on par with B5.

[GoonSquad]

Yeah well, I'm sure there was a little cross polenization … that happens all the time, especially in sci-fi.

Ever hear of The Lensmen ? Unless you're an uber sci-fi geek and you really like old sci-fi pulp the answer is probably no! Yet, if not for The Lensmen there would be no Green Lantern Corps and without the GLC, Star Wars wouldn't have Jedi Knights !

Everybody 'borrows' ideas. The trick is to 'borrow' without getting sued!

[whahaa]

i see where you're going with the GLC and the Jedi... you're thinking of the Jedi Council being similar to the GLC round table or whatever its called right?

well the Jedi Council, while present in extended universe material, never made it into canon until the prequel movies came out. so i can't really justify comparing Jedis to Green Lanterns.

Jedi's were ripped off from the samurai in Hidden Fortress.

[GoonSquad]

i see where you're going with the GLC and the Jedi... you're thinking of the Jedi Council being similar to the GLC round table or whatever its called right?

well the Jedi Council, while present in extended universe material, never made it into canon until the prequel movies came out. so i can't really justify comparing Jedis to Green Lanterns.

Jedi's were ripped off from the samurai in Hidden Fortress.

That's part of it... But, the Jedi were also sorta like the "Super Police" or elite paramilitary of the Republic, and the GLC are the "Super Police" and elite paramilitary of the DCU.

The Jedi are made up of many different species and they are capable of amazing feats because they channel their will through the 'Force'.

The GLC is made up of many different species and they are capable of amazing feats by channeling their will through 'power rings' that harness the 'eternal force of the universe'...

Both groups have special emblematic weapons that immediately identify the user as part of their group.

The similarities go on and on.

[dinopuppy]

B5 and DS9 were similar but split early on - in the Trek universe telepathy/empathy/esp was shrugged at and in B5 it was a major thing(at least for the Earth Alliance). IMO B5 was better because DS9 was wieghed down with the Trek name and it's negative implications (treknobabble mostly) - storywise DS9 is on par with B5.

Do you realize that your Omega Class Destroyer doesn't have any gun?

[austin]

I was thinking the other day DS9 copied a few character names for example in DS9 we have Gul Dukat in B5 we have Dukhat I wonder if Rick Berman did that by mistake.

Keep in mind one huge difference - B5 had a larger/overall story arc and fewer "standalone" episodes than DS9. There are similarities for very valid reasons, but the feel/tone is generally different when you get past the surface details.

[whahaa]

Fire missiles then!

Sir we have no missiles.

Torpedoes?

No sir.

Drones?

No sir.

Phasers?

No sir.

Lasers?

No sir.

What about some flaming arrows like from that Robin Hood Price of Thieves movie?

The fire would go out in the vacuum of space sir.

Very well. Launch the alert Jammer.

We are out of alert Jammers sir.

Well find someone to launch or I'm gonna start calling YOU Jammer.

Yes sir.

[Bitwiz]

I must have clicked something... I was on the battlestar board just a second ago...

[JLDGv2]

Fire missiles then!

Sir we have no missiles.

Torpedoes?

No sir.

Drones?

No sir.

Phasers?

No sir.

Lasers?

No sir.

What about some flaming arrows like from that Robin Hood Price of Thieves movie?

The fire would go out in the vacuum of space sir.

Very well. Launch the alert Jammer.

We are out of alert Jammers sir.

Well find someone to launch or I'm gonna start calling YOU Jammer.

Yes sir.

Changing Banners

[anwy]

Well I guess they must have borrowed a few ideas, but to me it doesn't matter: both show are great and I enjoy them!!!

[WarshipAngelus1]

I was thinking the other day DS9 copied a few character names for example in DS9 we have Gul Dukat in B5 we have Dukhat I wonder if Rick Berman did that by mistake.

Comparison
Some Babylon 5 fans contend that DS9 plagiarized elements of the premise and details of B5. J. Michael Straczynski approached Paramount Pictures, the studio which produced DS9, with the idea of producing B5 and had given them a copy of the series "bible" in 1989, several years before production on either series began. Straczynski has been quoted that DS9 was not developed until about 1991/1992 on the JMS message archive [1], and it is documented that DS9 was not announced by Paramount until nearly two months after the announcement of B5 by Warner Bros./PTEN in November 1991. Straczynski does not think that the producers of DS9 (Berman and Piller) borrowed the B5 concepts but the borrowing was done by the Paramount executives who had been given the series "bible" who directed the development of the series. ("Grand Theft, drama!" and "Re: DS9 vs B5 comments")

Babylon 5's pilot film was put into production first, in August 1992, while Deep Space Nine didn't begin filming until right after the B5 pilot production wrapped in September. However, the first DS9 episode was broadcast the month before the B5 pilot film in early 1993. The actual B5 series was not put into production until later that year. By the time B5's first season was produced and aired, DS9's entire first season had been televised and its second season had just started airing.

Many of the points listed above have caused much debate between fans of each franchise. In regard to the wormhole question, while some fans point out their existence in Star Trek before Babylon 5, wormholes had long been an established element of science fiction, pre-dating both shows.

Some Trek fans contend that since the Ivanova character, a hot-headed female, didn't appear until the first season of B5, one year after the DS9 premiere, that DS9 had the lead there; however, in the original Babylon 5 pitch material there is one Laurel Chang (later Takashima in the pilot), a "no-nonsense, but with a sly sense of humor" second-in-command.

Going the other way, however, it should be noted that in regard to the Defiant/White Star debate, DS9's third season began in the fall of 1994, while B5's third season began in the fall of 1995, thus the Defiant predates the White Star by a year. Furthermore, the two ships went in very different directions, with the White Star being the first ship of an entire fleet, while the Defiant was a troublesome prototype with only a handful of sister ships.

There were considerable differences between the oppressed races, also. Unlike the Bajorans, Babylon 5's Narn were a major power. Furthermore, the Bajorans and their story of oppression had already been established in a 1991 episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

DS9 was the first Star Trek series to break with the traditional standalone-episode format and adopt serial storyline arcs across several episodes, a format central to the B5 series. There are allegations that it only adopted the arc format in the later seasons, however its producers later contended that the entire series was one long story arc. Given that arc-oriented television had existed well before either series, in the form of soap operas and television shows such as St. Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues, it could be argued that there was no need to copy B5's format, since it had been successfully established elsewhere. In the favor of both series, a program taking place in a static location is more conducive to arc-driven storytelling than a series involving a transient starship.

[WarshipAngelus1]

I was thinking the other day DS9 copied a few character names for example in DS9 we have Gul Dukat in B5 we have Dukhat I wonder if Rick Berman did that by mistake.

Similarities
# Both series are named after a space station name with a single-digit number# Both series premiered in 1993, and were set aboard space stations that were hubs of interstellar trade and politics. # Both stations were located beside portals to distant places. (B5 guarded a hyperspace "jumpgate"; DS9 guarded the mouth of a wormhole.) # Both series originally featured a shapeshifter character; however, Babylon 5 dropped that element before filming, replacing it with occasional characters using various illusory and camouflage mechanisms.# Both Captains enjoy baseball.# Both started off with unmarried commanders haunted by a recent conflict.# Both commanders had a girlfriend who was a freighter captain, Carolyn Sykes for Commander Sinclair and Kasidy Yates for Captain Sisko.# The commander of each station eventually became a religious figure who fulfilled a prophecy, advised by enigmatic aliens who were regarded as spiritual beings.# In both series the spiritual beings (the Vorlons, the Prophets) had an enemy (the Shadows, the Pah Wraiths) generally viewed as evil spirits by other races, with whom they had been at war for millennia.# Both series build up to a war between Humans and a militarily powerful, hard-to-detect enemy (the invisible Shadows, the shapeshifting Founders).# Both series had a sarcastic, cynical but dedicated head of security who started out as perceptive and extremely competent, but later succumbed to insecurity and compulsion (Garibaldi's drinking, Odo's link with the female Shapeshifter)# Both series had an idealistic young doctor with a hidden secret (Bashir's genetic enhancement, Franklin's involvement with the Underground). Both doctors also had strained relationships with their fathers.# Both series involved the use of genetically engineered diseases, designed to work against a specific group (Changelings, Markab, Human and Narn Telepaths, others) as a means of control or genocide.# The second-in-command of each station was a woman with a hot temper who had lost a family member in a war. # Central to each series were two alien races, one of which had until recently occupied and oppressed the home planet of the other. Furthermore:## The oppressed race was a deeply religious one.## The oppressors in both series were later manipulated by a powerful alien race to achieve its goals.## This manipulation occurred via a regular character in the series belonging to the oppressor race, who vacillated between 'good' and 'evil' through the course of the series, ultimately being taken over completely by powerful evil forces, which eventually led to their untimely deaths.## The plot of each series eventually centered around a war against the oppressors and those who manipulated them.## These wars resulted in the devastations of the former-oppressors' homeworlds.# Both series involved an alien race who had once been humanity's main enemies, but were now strong (but often troublesome) allies (Klingons, Minbari)# Both series involve a character who must deal with the conflict between their alien heritage, and their adopted human qualities (Worf, Delenn) # Each series added a small, tough starship, each the first of its kind, during the third season: DS9's Defiant and B5's White Star. # Each series includes a sinister organization working within the humans' government: DS9's Section 31 and B5's Bureau 13, not to mention Psi Corps and Nightwatch as well.# Each series had a male character named "Dukat" (though B5's is spelled "Dukhat") and each series had a female character named "Lyta" (although DS9's is spelled "Leeta").# Each Station was administered by an Earth based government (Earth Alliance in B5, the Federation in DS9) but was not in that government's territory.# In the first season finales of both series, the character frequently regarded as the "everyman" (Miles O'Brien on DS9, Michael Garibaldi on B5) is betrayed by his assistant in an assassination attempt.# Both series have a character who is the sidekick from an egocentric culture (Vir the Centauri and Rom the Ferengi). They both have values that are more "human" than those of their culture and are therefore seen as poor excuses for members of their race. Despite all this, they both end up as the leaders of their race by the end of the series.# Both series featured a six-episode story arc at the beginning of their penultimate seasons that chronicled a major turning point in their respective wars (the defeat of the Shadows and Vorlons in B5, and the retaking of the station from the Dominion in DS9).

[WarshipAngelus1]

Do you realize that your Omega Class Destroyer doesn't have any gun?

You never make any sense.

[WarshipAngelus1]

I was thinking the other day DS9 copied a few character names for example in DS9 we have Gul Dukat in B5 we have Dukhat I wonder if Rick Berman did that by mistake.

Eerie Similarites between "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" and "Babylon 5"

Background: Babylon 5 (B5) was created by Michael Straczynski (JMS), who concieved the show from the very beginning as having 5 seasons, built around an overarching storyline that was written in great detail from the very beginning. At the time that Paramount was considering creating a third Star Trek series, JMS pitched the series to Paramount. Paramount turned him down, partly because it was slightly similar to their early concepts for what eventually became Deep Space Nine (DS9). JMS eventually managed to sell the show to PTEN as a TV-Movie, which did well enough in the ratings for them to agree to produce the series. Together, Babylon 5 and Star Trek started the wave of successful Syndicated shows that later included Hercules, Xena, their many imitators, and even "Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict", which are not connected with any one network. However, as UPN and the WB network started taking over many of the independent UHF stations that bought syndicated shows, Babylon 5 eventually was cancelled after only 4 seasons, until the cable network TNT picked up the show and agreed to produce the 5th season in exchange for EXCLUSIVE rights to the first 4 seasons. TNT also produced several more Babylon 5 TV Movies, as well as the follow-on series, "Crusade". However, a personality conflict between JMS (who was not enthusiastic about adding to a show that he felt was complete) and Ted Turner (Owner of TNT, who wanted to turn the show into Baywatch in Space and dumb down the plot lines) led to that show being cancelled after only a handful of episodes.

In the meantime, many of the DS9 writers had moved on to Star Trek: Voyager, and DS9's ratings were slipping. The new DS9 writers, seeing the large fan base that B5 had attracted, decided to take a page from B5 and convert from an episodic format (episodes rarely affecting what happens in later episodes) to a B5-like episodic format. This, and a few other similarities between the two series, have led to many claims by fans of each show that the other one "Stole" ideas. So, let's look at the Eerie Similarities between "Babylon 5" and "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"....

B5: Babylon 5 is a space station beyond the edge of human-controlled space, designed after a devastating war to be a meeting place for diplomatic negotiations to avoid future wars.
DS9: Deep Space 9 is a space Station beyond the edge of Federation-controlled space, rechristened after a devastating military occupation to keep the peace and avoid future conflicts.

B5: Both Captain Sinclair and Captain Sheridan played key roles in the Earth-Minbari War 10 years before the show began.
DS9: Both Major Kira and Chief O'Brien fought in the Federation-Cardassian war several years before the show began.

B5: Strong-willed female first officer, Commander Susan Ivanova, who is a Russian Jew, and who is in charge of the "Voice of the Resistance" when Babylon 5 secedes from Earth.
DS9: Strong-willed female first officer, Major Kira Nerys, who is a Bajoran and a former terrorist freedom fighter.

B5: Minbari Leader Dukhat dies in the incident that starts the 10-year Earth-Minbari War.
DS9: Cardassian Gul Dukat is the former commander of DS9 under Cardassian rule, who plays a major role in the Dominion War.

B5: Centauri switch sides repeatedly during the Shadow War.
DS9: Cardassians and Breen switch sides repeatedly during the Dominion War.

B5: In the Shadow War, the leaders of Babylon 5 must forge an alliance among many competing races to save the whole Galaxy from conquest by the Shadows, a mysterious and ancient race who can turn themselves invisible.
DS9: In the Dominion War, the leaders of Deep Space 9 must forge an alliance among the Romulans, Klingons, and Federation to save the whole Alpha Quadrant from conquest by the Dominion, who are led by the Founders, a mysterious and ancient race who can shape-shift.

B5: Halfway through the series, the former Captain leaves and the Station gets a new Captain for plot purposes, this was planned fromt he outset.
DS9: Halfway through the series, Worf is added to the cast in a desperate attempt to boost ratings. The flimsiest of plot contrivances are used to explain this, as well as what the hell Worf is doing back on the Enterprise in the two movies released during that time.

B5: Late in the series, Ivanova leaves the series due to the actress wanting to persue a movie career. A new and very similar character is hastily created, but the plot is reworked to make this seem somewhat reasonable.
DS9: Late in the series, Jadzia Dax leaves the series due to the actress wanting to persue a movie career. A new actress is chosen to take over her role, and some flimsy plot contrivances are hastily assembled to explain this. .

B5: Halfway through the series, Captain Sheridan gets at his disposal the "White Star", a prototype ship that is small, fast, very maneuverable, heavily armed, and includes both Minbari and Vorlon technology. It is specifically designed to take on Shadow ships.
DS9: Halfway through the series, Captain Sisko gets at his disposal the "USS Defiant", a prototype ship that is small, fast, very maneuverable, heavily armed, and includes Romulan cloaking technology. It is specifically designed to take on Borg ships, and is used to fight the Dominion.

B5: Both captains (Jeffery Sinclair and John Sheridan) have the Initials "J.S.", just like Series Creator Joe Straczynski.
DS9: Captain Benjamin Sisko. Think about it. Okay, that was a bit of a stretch.

B5: The Vorlons appear as Angels to the Narn, Humans, Minbari, and other races, since they have been manipulating those races throughout their history and grooming them for the coming war with the Shadows. The whole Shadow War is really a fight between the Shadows and the Vorlons.
DS9: The Prophets set themselves up as Gods to the Bajorans, and the end of the Dominion War hinges on the Prophets' fight with the Pa' Wraiths.

B5: In the Episode "Into the Fire", the Vorlons and Shadows appear to Sheridan and Delenn as images of people they know, and argue the philosophy of free will with them.
DS9: In the Episode "The Emissary", the Prophets appear to Sisko as images of people he knows, and argue the philosophy of time with him.

B5: In the Shadow War, the Shadows and Vorlons both use allies and client races as puppets in their war against each other.
DS9: In the Dominion War, the Dominion uses the Cardassians and Breen as puppets, while the Federation seeks alliance with the Klingons and Romulans in their wars.

B5: Wry security chief Michael Garibaldi has a checkered past, and late in the series betrays his comrades and works with the Shadows, but later breaks his mind-control and becomes a good guy again.
DS9: Wry security chief Constable Odo used to work for the Cardassians, and late in the series betrays his comrades and works with the Dominion, but later helps the Federation defeat the Dominion.

B5: Centauri Ambassador Londo Molari starts off as Comic relief, becomes a villian, and ends up as a tragic hero.
DS9: Cardassian Gul Dukay starts off as a villian, becomes comic relief and is briefly a hero, then ends up as a villian again.

B5: Features regular guest appearances by Walter Koenig, who played "Chekov" on the original Star Trek series, a crew member of the USS Enterprise.
DS9: Both O'Brien and Worf were crewmen on the USS Enterprise, and TNG characters made guest appearances in more than one episode.

B5: The religions of the Minbari, Drazi, Centauri, Narn, and other alien races are a major factor in the plot.
DS9: The religions of the Bajorans, Klingons, and other alien races are a major factor in the plot.

B5: Captain Sheridan's wife is played by Melissa Gilbert, the real-life wife of Bruce Boxleitner, who plays Captain Sheridan. Their real-life wedding picture is seen in several episodes on Captain Sheridan's desk as his wedding picture. Also, Jerry Doyle, who plays Michael Garibaldi, is married to Andrea Thompson, who played Talia Winter for two seasons on the show.
DS9: When Nana Visitor, who plays Major Kira, got pregnant by Alexander Siddig, who plays Julian Bashir, her pregnancy was written into the plot, with the Baby being Miles and Keiko O'Brien's. Also, one of the producers is married to Patrick Stewart, who plays Captain Picard, who was a guest character on two episodes.

B5: The Vorlons have been interfering in the evolution of many races, breeding telepaths to be used as weapons against the Shadows.
DS9: The Founders have been breeding genetically-engineerd races like the Vorta and Jem Hadar to use as soldiers and diplomats in their wars of conquest.

B5: Three episodes were directed by Stephen Furst, who plays "Vir Cotto" in the series, and two episodes were directed by Adam Nimoy, son of Leonard "Spock" Nimoy.
DS9: Several episodes directed by various cast members, both of DS9 and TNG.

B5: After the Shadow War, both the Shadows and the Vorlons leave the galaxy to "pass beyond the rim", and in the last episode of the series, Captain Sheridan is taken to join them.
DS9: After the Dominion War, the Founders *** off back to the Gamma Quadrant on the other side of the galaxy, and in the last episode of the series, Constable Odo leaves to join them.

[Arakim01]

B5: After the Shadow War, both the Shadows and the Vorlons leave the galaxy to "pass beyond the rim", and in the last episode of the series, Captain Sheridan is taken to join them.
DS9: After the Dominion War, the Founders *** off back to the Gamma Quadrant on the other side of the galaxy, and in the last episode of the series, Constable Odo leaves to join them.

... And Captain Sisko also dissapears and joins the Prophets at the end of the series.