Ming doesnt have to be asian, but at least let him be bald! Options

[buckgordon]

for a ming that has hair, is no ming at all:(

[sighphi]

for a ming that has hair, is no ming at all:(

no he doesnt have to be asian but he needs the fu manchu beard/mustache and a skullcap.

[imalittleteapoth...]

Or have a deviate wing on his head? That was a pretty good suggestion.

[baldy46]

no he doesnt have to be asian but he needs the fu manchu beard/mustache and a skullcap.

Incredible analysis, just incredible.

Ming the Merciless has to be MERCILESS. Killing people because they oppose him, because they stepped on his toes, because they blocked his view of the sun, or maybe because he was just plain bored that day, Everything else is trivial and probably racist. The 30s movie version certainly was.

[baldy46]

no he doesnt have to be asian but he needs the fu manchu beard/mustache and a skullcap.

Incredible analysis, just incredible.

Ming the Merciless has to be MERCILESS. Killing people because they oppose him, because they stepped on his toes, because they blocked his view of the sun, or maybe because he was just plain bored that day, Everything else is trivial and probably racist. The 30s movie version certainly was.

Sorry I "double clutched" and can't figure out how to erase this version.

[imalittleteapoth...]

Well, the original was racist, but sigphi's suggestion doesn't seem to be. Skullcap + 'stache could be sported by anyone

But I'm too used to ming as he is now...unless he's a figurehead for the real ming?!

[Rhuen]

maybe he would prefer the Skrull rip-off from the cartoon.

I like this Ming better than the original Ming.

Seriously, people complaine alot about this show, but the truth is the original was terrible, the movie was B class barely above Barbarella for entertainement, and the cartoon pure rubbish.

So the show by comparison is okay, it entertaines and the characters are more modern versions of themselves, sometimes that's bad in my opinion (Hawkmen) but sometimes its good (Ming) he isn't just some Skeletor evil for evil's sake villian, he's a twisted Tyrant who thinks he is doing the right thing, and has a major chip on his shoulder letting the power get to his head, most likely mentally un-stable as well as a result.

[Dawg2009]

maybe he would prefer the Skrull rip-off from the cartoon.

I like this Ming better than the original Ming.

Seriously, people complaine alot about this show, but the truth is the original was terrible, the movie was B class barely above Barbarella for entertainement, and the cartoon pure rubbish.

So the show by comparison is okay, it entertaines and the characters are more modern versions of themselves, sometimes that's bad in my opinion (Hawkmen) but sometimes its good (Ming) he isn't just some Skeletor evil for evil's sake villian, he's a twisted Tyrant who thinks he is doing the right thing, and has a major chip on his shoulder letting the power get to his head, most likely mentally un-stable as well as a result.

Which original do you mean, the comic book or the movie serials with Buster Crabbe?

I don't give a rip what ethnic background Ming has - although the name does evoke an Asian feel - or how much hair he sports where. baldy46 got it right in that regard - show me someone who kills on a whim and not worry about the consequences, who wants Earth because Earth is there and apparently vulnerable, someone with no morality or humanity about him. The milquetoast accountant on Flush Gordon is about as menacing as my 5-year old grandson. No, on further thought I have to admit my grandson exudes more menace than this guy ever could.

I am
Dawg

[Aegius]

Which original do you mean, the comic book or the movie serials with Buster Crabbe?

I don't give a rip what ethnic background Ming has - although the name does evoke an Asian feel - or how much hair he sports where. baldy46 got it right in that regard - show me someone who kills on a whim and not worry about the consequences, who wants Earth because Earth is there and apparently vulnerable, someone with no morality or humanity about him. The milquetoast accountant on Flush Gordon is about as menacing as my 5-year old grandson. No, on further thought I have to admit my grandson exudes more menace than this guy ever could.

I am
Dawg

The Ming dynasty is a well known era in China in the West. That's how the name gives him an Asian comportment. He doesn't have to be bald, but he does have to menacing in features and in behavior. Being a disinterested bureaucrat with a demeanor of a stereotypical accountant just doesn't suffice. Threatening to toss his daughter off the balcony was a good move in that direction. He should be beating people up with his bare hands, slashing people with swords and knives while their friends and families watch. He should personally oversee torture and be eating something delicious while doing so(as Heinrich Himmler - he did so as the Nazis' victims were being put into the gas chambers - and Vlad Dracul did - as people were being impaled). He should be hurling abusive insults and berating people galore. Terrible fear should be invoked upon his very name being heard. His name may invoke anger in this version, but never fear and terror.

He doesn't need to be bald, but a long bear like the pirate Blackbeard would help. A skullcap would also help and maybe some skull-shaped trinkets in necklaces and bracelets.

Yes, the demeanor and behavior really need to be improved upon. Even in the last ep. when the queen of Frigia marched into Ming's palace and told him off, it really wasn't too impressive. We all knew that would happen and it really was not to the terrible monster that Ming should be.

[baldy46]

... The milquetoast accountant on Flush Gordon is about as menacing as my 5-year old grandson. ...

Outside of choking his daughter while she was leaning over the ledge, Ming shot the guard who let Terek go, strangled (to death) a puppeteer who was making fun of him, and cut off the finger of his personal shaver who nicked him when he moved. If that's not menacing enough, you must let your 5-year old grandson play with chainsaws and machine pistols.

[javadude]

Incredible analysis, just incredible.

Ming the Merciless has to be MERCILESS. Killing people because they oppose him, because they stepped on his toes, because they blocked his view of the sun, or maybe because he was just plain bored that day, Everything else is trivial and probably racist. The 30s movie version certainly was.

Sorry I "double clutched" and can't figure out how to erase this version.

You can't delete the double post, but you can edit it to say something else. Anyway... Ming was from another planet... to think has has to be Asian is ridiculous. His appearance is only a reflection of society. Back then it was pretty common, and accepted, to make non-Caucasian, non-Americans the bad guys. it's a little different these days. Ming's race/ethnic background isn't what defines the character; his ruthlessness is, and anybody who thinks he isn't ruthless and merciless... isn't very perceptive.

[Laeknir]

Outside of choking his daughter while she was leaning over the ledge, Ming shot the guard who let Terek go, strangled (to death) a puppeteer who was making fun of him, and cut off the finger of his personal shaver who nicked him when he moved. If that's not menacing enough, you must let your 5-year old grandson play with chainsaws and machine pistols.

Let's draw a distinction here... because "menacing" is something different than what you've noted above.

This version of Ming is somewhat violent, and he's a bit off-kilter, but the bottom line is that he is petty and doesn't generate a menacing environment.

Menace is about coming into a room and exuding a threat that death or extreme pain is imminent. It's about generating fear through one's presence alone... not just minor acts of violence. Furthermore, violence doesn't actually have to happen, and rarely is it made immediately personal. It's done with a look... the one that sends chills up your spine because of the power differential and his utter lack of caring if you personally live or die. And more, the reach of his hand to crush the life out of you is most usually done through menials, servants, and intermediaries... a true (evil) Emperor doesn't sully his hands to kill a person that is of no use to him.

Max von Sydow can do menace. Really, really well. This Ming... just can't.

[baldy46]

Let's draw a distinction here... because "menacing" is something different than what you've noted above.

This version of Ming is somewhat violent, and he's a bit off-kilter, but the bottom line is that he is petty and doesn't generate a menacing environment.

Menace is about coming into a room and exuding a threat that death or extreme pain is imminent. It's about generating fear through one's presence alone... not just minor acts of violence. Furthermore, violence doesn't actually have to happen, and rarely is it made immediately personal. It's done with a look... the one that sends chills up your spine because of the power differential and his utter lack of caring if you personally live or die. And more, the reach of his hand to crush the life out of you is most usually done through menials, servants, and intermediaries...

Agree with all of the above, it's what I call the Tony Soprano effect, you just know this guy can and will kill anybody at literally the drop of a hat. The thing about Tony is that he's not doing business in an open court with all sorts of media and other witnesses present. I almost expected Ming to order his guards to shoot the Frigians but in addition to all those witnesses the Friggians knew where there queen was and would not take kindly to her execution. In other words, Ming has constraints that Tony doesn't.

a true (evil) Emperor doesn't [need to] sully his hands to kill a person that is of no use to him.

True, but killing somebody himself shows that he's willing to keep his "hands in" and is definitely not afraid to get them bloody.

Max von Sydow can do menace. Really, really well. This Ming... just can't.

I haven't seen Max von Sydow do "menace" so I can't comment there. For me, this Ming does "menace", just in a very controlled manner to achieve his political aims. From all the other comments, I have to wonder if the reason this Ming is not working for you is that this Ming is a bushy-haired blue-eyed blond instead of the stereotypical bald FU-manchu Oriental.

[Laeknir]

Agree with all of the above, it's what I call the Tony Soprano effect, you just know this guy can and will kill anybody at literally the drop of a hat. The thing about Tony is that he's not doing business in an open court with all sorts of media and other witnesses present. I almost expected Ming to order his guards to shoot the Frigians but in addition to all those witnesses the Friggians knew where there queen was and would not take kindly to her execution. In other words, Ming has constraints that Tony doesn't.

Exactly! The Tony Soprano thing is completely it. And it's also true about this Ming having constraints. But those constraints don't make this Ming interesting... they've always been absent in other versions. Ming's always been the one without constraints, the Emperor who kills based on his mood.

True, but killing somebody himself shows that he's willing to keep his "hands in" and is definitely not afraid to get them bloody.

Just the opposite, I think this Ming just... fails on the whole. Sure, he's willing to choke someone or kill a puppeteer, but it all has seemed rather petty to me. There's no grand feeling from this Ming, no threat to entire races, worlds. Just some personal killing, and that's kind of dull.

I haven't seen Max von Sydow do "menace" so I can't comment there.

Oh man... please go rent the 1980 Flash movie. You'll see what I mean about Max's Ming. But even before, in the original comics, that Ming was just so much more fun... more fun to hate, the Emperor who needs no moral compass because he is power... he is the god of his own empire.

For me, this Ming does "menace", just in a very controlled manner to achieve his political aims. From all the other comments, I have to wonder if the reason this Ming is not working for you is that this Ming is a bushy-haired blue-eyed blond instead of the stereotypical bald FU-manchu Oriental.

Nah, it's not just because he's blond. He's just written such that he doesn't have hardly anything in common with the original Ming (or even the movie Ming). He's rather bland and his goals seem so... small.

[Dawg2009]

Outside of choking his daughter while she was leaning over the ledge, Ming shot the guard who let Terek go, strangled (to death) a puppeteer who was making fun of him, and cut off the finger of his personal shaver who nicked him when he moved. If that's not menacing enough, you must let your 5-year old grandson play with chainsaws and machine pistols.

Chainsaws, yes. However, he doesn't get the pistol until he's 9.



Obviously, you don't understand "menace". Daen gets it, and he articulates it well, so I'm not going to repeat what he said.

My grandson is a good boy, and a joy. He still exudes more menace than the Canadian accountant.

(I just hate explaining punchlines....)

I am
Dawg

[Rhuen]

This Ming reflects our times, he is a politician, one who wants to rule, but also wants his people to not only respect him, but to like him. He is afraid of civil war and such.

A pure evil dictator who exhudes menace, also has more enemies than a politician, and in this day of (realism in character development) a character like that would have to be something that people follow because as evil and menacing as they are, they know they can't kill them (like a super human or demonic being) Ming is basically human, so being evil and menacing would realistically get him shot pretty quik, probably by his own guards who may get pretty sick of their guys being killed around every turn just because Ming wants to prove how scary he is.

not doing that would loose modern audiences on the "suspension of disbelief" people these days on average can suspend physics but demand personality reactions to fit.

[Dawg2009]

This Ming reflects our times, he is a politician, one who wants to rule, but also wants his people to not only respect him, but to like him. He is afraid of civil war and such.

A pure evil dictator who exhudes menace, also has more enemies than a politician, and in this day of (realism in character development) a character like that would have to be something that people follow because as evil and menacing as they are, they know they can't kill them (like a super human or demonic being) Ming is basically human, so being evil and menacing would realistically get him shot pretty quik, probably by his own guards who may get pretty sick of their guys being killed around every turn just because Ming wants to prove how scary he is.

not doing that would loose modern audiences on the "suspension of disbelief" people these days on average can suspend physics but demand personality reactions to fit.

Who says pure evil isn't a reflection of our times? And, Ming is supposed to be the enemy. He is supposed to be the antithesis of the hero. He is pure evil and intends to inflict his evil upon the Earth. He doesn't care if his people like him, he just wants his people to fear him. His soldiers won't revolt because they're the strong arm and can lord it over everyone else. Their loyalty is bought and paid for.

You only have to look to the middle east for real-world examples of scum like that.

This Ming is a petty little tyrant who stamps his dainty little foot, and this "Flash" a wussy mama's-boy. And this is supposed to reflect the real world?

'Realism in character development' my lily-white ***.

I am
Dawg

[Aegius]

This Ming reflects our times, he is a politician, one who wants to rule, but also wants his people to not only respect him, but to like him. He is afraid of civil war and such.

We don't have horrific monstrous tyrants in our times? Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Kabila in Congo, the gov. in Sudan, the Taliban, Kim Jong-Il in N. Korea. They don't care about being liked, but just want to be feared and respected. Ming is a politician, who engages in manipulative behavior, but really doesn't instill fear.

A pure evil dictator who exhudes menace, also has more enemies than a politician, and in this day of (realism in character development) a character like that would have to be something that people follow because as evil and menacing as they are, they know they can't kill them (like a super human or demonic being) Ming is basically human, so being evil and menacing would realistically get him shot pretty quik, probably by his own guards who may get pretty sick of their guys being killed around every turn just because Ming wants to prove how scary he is.
not doing that would loose modern audiences on the "suspension of disbelief" people these days on average can suspend physics but demand personality reactions to fit.

Monsters have often had followers by using scape-goats and making themselves look like saviors. Now Ming has sought to come off as a savior, but really hasn't shown such demeanor significantly. He wouldn't necessary get shot quickly, because he would have plenty of followers via fear and respect and to keep the status quo.

[Rhuen]

Ming wants to look good to his people, manipulate their hearts and minds. terrorists and dictators in our world are the same way, using the beliefs and ideals of their people and twisting them so these people follow them.

when I say pure evil, I mean kills his own people left and right for fun, skulls on the wall, drinking human blood and eating babies, and using their bones as tooth picks. a person who is clearly evil, who exhudes menace and hatred has no followers, especially if they are so evil that even the most depraved beasts can't feel secure in their presence.

our world has and has had many twisted people, but these people had many followers. They appear charismatic to their target audiences, looking like good guys from their twisted point of view of reality.

Adolf Hitler was loved by his people, he was charismatic, he smiled alot, his people leaned on his words and saw him as a great leader who cared for his people and he used that to twist their hearts and minds (propoganda goes along way) to think like he did and accept any bad things as being necisary for the betterment of their society.

That is how human evil works, by looking good to enough people to establish its self as a power.
governments, cults, built on the thrones of bones covered in roses.

hide your evil behind a mask of charisma to the masses and the world is conqured.

[TwiceWise]

I don't remember the details exactly, but the incident went something like this.

In the late 1960's Iraq was in turmoil. Several regional warlords were vying for power. For several years Saddam Hussein had been developing a secret, security police who were only responsible to him.

On one evening the important leaders of Iraq all came together to decide among themselves who would be elevated to the position of President. In the middle of that meeting Saddam Hussein stood up, declared himself president, and dared any of those present to oppose him. Several men stood up at once, all of them shouting that his claim to power was illegitimate. At that time the security police that Saddam had scattered through the audience stood up. They locked the doors to the hall, raised their guns and shot all of those who had been shouting their opposition.

Saddam didn't say anything. He remained standing and his policemen remained standing. He kept them in the room for hours. No one dared to move. Anyone who stood up or made a move toward the door was shot. He kept them in the hall so long that some of them urinated on themselves because they couldn't go to the bathroom. One by one their nerves broke. They started crawling on their hands and knees toward him begging for mercy. He said nothing, made no move toward them. If any of them reached out toward him or tried to touch him they were killed. He kept them there for something like 12 hours until the smell of feces and urine had become overwhelming. And then he walked to the door, unlocked it and walked out. From that day on he was the president of Iraq and no one dared to oppose him to his face.

Dictators have no restraints. They can kill whoever they want to kill. Saddam wiped out entire villages because they opposed him. Mass graves have been found containing as many as 50,000 bodies piled on top of one another. He killed members of his own family to stay in power. He used to eat popcorn while watching movies of men being cut to pieces in a industrial shredder, all the while screaming and begging for their lives.

This Ming is on the same level as a street thug. The evil of someone like Joseph Stalin or Saddam Hussein is on another level entirely.

- 2sage