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The unpopular truth about Season 4


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#1 LloydChristmas07

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 06:03 PM

After reading many of the topics on this bboard, I have become confused by how many people have stated many times how great and wonderful Season 4 was and how Manny Coto had taken the reigns and turned the entire series around in a positive direction. While I will agree that  In a Mirror Darkly(part 1 & 2), Demons and Terra Prime were some of the best episodes of the entire series, the rest of season 4 is just as good or bad as seasons 1, 2 and 3. The Manny Cotto written episodes aren't outstanding, with the exceptions of In a Mirror Darkly 2 and Demons, and I thought all of the "let's get Brent Spiner involved somehow" episodes were terrible. The rest of the Episodes in season 4 are just regular on par episodes of Enterprise nothing special.

#2 Dione

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 3 2007, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After reading many of the topics on this bboard, I have become confused by how many people have stated many times how great and wonderful Season 4 was and how Manny Coto had taken the reigns and turned the entire series around in a positive direction. While I will agree that In a Mirror Darkly(part 1 & 2), Demons and Terra Prime were some of the best episodes of the entire series, the rest of season 4 is just as good or bad as seasons 1, 2 and 3. The Manny Cotto written episodes aren't outstanding, with the exceptions of In a Mirror Darkly 2 and Demons, and I thought all of the "let's get Brent Spiner involved somehow" episodes were terrible. The rest of the Episodes in season 4 are just regular on par episodes of Enterprise nothing special.


Well, you shouldn't call it "the unpopular truth about Season 4" What you're stating here is not fact, it's opinion, and it's only one. Many others would disagree with you. However, if you can get some info about ratings..that might be a different story. But a lot of people enjoyed the show after Coto took over, and it certaintly seemed to be of a higher quality, then when just Berman and Brannon were in charge, recyling the SAME stories...with Hoshi worrying about not being a good enough officer...the crew infected by something...Malcom and Tripp become obsessed with their jobs..YAWN! I found it a lot better when Coto took over.
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#3 LloydChristmas07

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 07:18 PM

Everything that I say, or in this case type, is my opinion as is the case with anyone else. Constantly reminding people that what I say(type) is my opinion is redundant. Back to the subject:

To say that Season 4 isn't guilty of "recyling the SAME stories" is just plain wrong. Where do you think the whole Dr Soong, hey look folks it's Brent Spiner, episode ideas came from? Hello TOS, and Star Trek 2 and God knows how many episodes of TNG. The whole alternate, bad person universe was already done on DS9 but not quite as well though. You will have to come up with something better than not "recyling the SAME stories" to justify the overwhelming majority's assertion that Season 4 was so much better that 1, 2 and 3.

#4 Dione

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 07:54 PM

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 3 2007, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everything that I say, or in this case type, is my opinion as is the case with anyone else. Constantly reminding people that what I say(type) is my opinion is redundant.


Then you should make that clear in your title line.

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 3 2007, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To say that Season 4 isn't guilty of "recyling the SAME stories" is just plain wrong. Where do you think the whole Dr Soong, hey look folks it's Brent Spiner, episode ideas came from? Hello TOS, and Star Trek 2 and God knows how many episodes of TNG. The whole alternate, bad person universe was already done on DS9 but not quite as well though. You will have to come up with something better than not "recyling the SAME stories" to justify the overwhelming majority's assertion that Season 4 was so much better that 1, 2 and 3.


Well, just because the stories were taken and remade into something much better doesn't mean it's simply just a rehash of the same old stuff. While TNG had Dr.Soong, he was limited in his capacity and didn't do very much. Dr. Soong in 'enterprise' was a much more interesting and well rounded character. The whole alternate universe story was already done in TOS, possibly DS9 as well (yeah, I think I remember), but in Enterprise, they put an interesting twist on it.

In any case, because each incarnation is simply a rebooting of the same thing; it's impossible not to have stories that aren't recyled from the same material. When Coto took over, stories were taken from the old stuff, just made into something better. This is why a reimagining of a show is better than just a reboosting, because, like with Enterprise, it has to be as compatible as possible with TOS and all other incarnations. It still was better in season 4, what with character development and all.
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#5 joxerfan

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 07:56 AM

THIS IS THE TRUTH!! (in my opinion...)

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#6 kylenin51

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 3 2007, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everything that I say, or in this case type, is my opinion as is the case with anyone else.


Maybe your title should have been "The Unpopular Opinion About Season 4", then. As it is, it's kind of misleading.
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#7 Dione

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 3 2007, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Everything that I say, or in this case type, is my opinion as is the case with anyone else. Constantly reminding people that what I say(type) is my opinion is redundant.


Well, some people throw in what the creators say, or stats from the ratings too. So it's not always based on opinion.
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#8 LloydChristmas07

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (kylenin51 @ Sep 4 2007, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe your title should have been "The Unpopular Opinion About Season 4", then. As it is, it's kind of misleading.


Actually I do believe that what I posted is the truth and I explained why. You in turn explained why you believed that I am wrong and then I refuted your arguments, that's why it is called a discussion. Instead of trying to figure out what is wrong with the title of my post, which I feel is quite correct, why don't people tell me what is so "right" about season 4. I'm not saying that I hate season 4 or that it sucked, all I am saying is that it isn't heads and tails above seasons 1,2 and 3. Season 4 was just another good, on par, run of the mill season of Enterprise. And actually the more I think about it, ONLY the "In a Mirror" episodes where "better than the usual" episode.

#9 kylenin51

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 09:43 AM

QUOTE (LloydChristmas07 @ Sep 4 2007, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Instead of trying to figure out what is wrong with the title of my post, which I feel is quite correct, why don't people tell me what is so "right" about season 4.


Okay, the stories for Season 4 had much more depth than the stories from Season 1 and 2. Which I suppose is understandable. Seasons 1 and 2 were mostly made up of one-episode stories, while Season 4 was mostly made up of two-episode and three-episode stories. And beyond that, the two-episode and three-episode story arcs were connected to each other (like "Borderland" connects to "Bound", "The Augments" connects to "Affliction" and "Divergence"). And, of course, there's all of the connections to the other Trek shows, like:

Dr. Arik Soong (the great-grandfather of Dr. Noonien Soong - Data's creator - TNG) - "Borderland"
The Orions (from various TOS episode, inlcuding "Journey to Babel") - "Borderland" and "Bound"
The Briar Patch (from Star Trek: Insurrection) - "The Augments"
Botany Bay (from the TOS episode "Space Seed" and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan) - "The Augments"
The Forge (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear" and the DS9 episode "Change of Heart") - "The Forge"
A Sehlat (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear") - "The Forge"
T'Pau (from the TOS episode "Amok Time") - "Awakening" and "Kir'Shara"
The Organians (from the TOS episode "Errand of Mercy") - "Observer Effect"
The Remans (from Star Trek: Nemesis) - "United"
The Human-Looking Klingons (all of TOS) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
Section 31 (various DS9 episodes) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
The Tholians (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
Gorn (from the TOS episode "Arena") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
The Defiant (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"

I'm kind of running out of time here, but you get the idea. There's a lot of connections to the other shows (mostly TOS, but Enterprise does take place closer to TOS than the other shows, so ...). There were a few in Season 1 and 2, though, but not nearly as much as 4. Season 3 had the least, but they were kind of busy with the whole Xindi conflict at the time.

That's basically why I think Season 4 is better than the rest. It was crammed with more "stuff". Stuff that kept me coming back for more. Impatiently.
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#10 Myrealana

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE (kylenin51 @ Sep 5 2007, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, the stories for Season 4 had much more depth than the stories from Season 1 and 2. Which I suppose is understandable. Seasons 1 and 2 were mostly made up of one-episode stories, while Season 4 was mostly made up of two-episode and three-episode stories. And beyond that, the two-episode and three-episode story arcs were connected to each other (like "Borderland" connects to "Bound", "The Augments" connects to "Affliction" and "Divergence"). And, of course, there's all of the connections to the other Trek shows, like:

Dr. Arik Soong (the great-grandfather of Dr. Noonien Soong - Data's creator - TNG) - "Borderland"
The Orions (from various TOS episode, inlcuding "Journey to Babel") - "Borderland" and "Bound"
The Briar Patch (from Star Trek: Insurrection) - "The Augments"
Botany Bay (from the TOS episode "Space Seed" and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan) - "The Augments"
The Forge (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear" and the DS9 episode "Change of Heart") - "The Forge"
A Sehlat (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear") - "The Forge"
T'Pau (from the TOS episode "Amok Time") - "Awakening" and "Kir'Shara"
The Organians (from the TOS episode "Errand of Mercy") - "Observer Effect"
The Remans (from Star Trek: Nemesis) - "United"
The Human-Looking Klingons (all of TOS) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
Section 31 (various DS9 episodes) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
The Tholians (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
Gorn (from the TOS episode "Arena") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
The Defiant (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"

I'm kind of running out of time here, but you get the idea. There's a lot of connections to the other shows (mostly TOS, but Enterprise does take place closer to TOS than the other shows, so ...). There were a few in Season 1 and 2, though, but not nearly as much as 4. Season 3 had the least, but they were kind of busy with the whole Xindi conflict at the time.

That's basically why I think Season 4 is better than the rest. It was crammed with more "stuff". Stuff that kept me coming back for more. Impatiently.

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Season 4 was decideldly better than the previous three for those reasons and more. The characters were allowed more depth, the episodes were more connected (not just the moulti-parters, but the whole season) and most of all, Cotto was heling to pull the whole thing back into line with the whole Trek 'verse.
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#11 Podi2

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE (Dione @ Sep 3 2007, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, you shouldn't call it "the unpopular truth about Season 4" What you're stating here is not fact, it's opinion, and it's only one. Many others would disagree with you. However, if you can get some info about ratings..that might be a different story. But a lot of people enjoyed the show after Coto took over, and it certaintly seemed to be of a higher quality, then when just Berman and Brannon were in charge, recyling the SAME stories...with Hoshi worrying about not being a good enough officer...the crew infected by something...Malcom and Tripp become obsessed with their jobs..YAWN! I found it a lot better when Coto took over.


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#12 joxerfan

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 03:43 PM

And so we are then at a dead end: one person thinks the truth is that some season was better than another.... another thinks the truth is something else.... and we see why there is no such thing as "truth" when it comes to personal taste.

You can't even be absolute if you say something seemingly obvious, like how so many of the eps were derivative. Which is not a bad thing all the previous Treks were derivastive of the first, which was in turn derivative of any number of earlier tv shows, movies and books.

What makes me think of this right now is a couple of the eps the other night, incl. "the one where" Trip is stranded on a planet with an alien and they have to work together. OK, this is like "the one where" Jean-Luc and Paul Winfield are similarly stuck together ("Darmak, his hands spread wide!") and even more like "Enemy Mine" with Dennis Quaid and Lou Gossett... except that those derive from "Arena" on TOS... which derives from a Lee Marvin movie called "Hell in the Pacific" ... and if you believe Jean-Luc, it's all Enkidu and Gilgamesh in the long run.

And also "the one where" Trip is stranded with a haughty alien princess babe (Padma Lakshmi.) Which derives from "Elaan of Troyius" ... but also from the Lina Wertmuller film "Swept Away," and "Pygmalion," and "Taming of the Shrew," etc. etc. etc.

Which is a digression but if I were to say I liked these but they were derivative... someone else could just as legitimately say that they expanded on the original, went in a different direction, and improved on stock archetypal plot. I could be a film professor and give a hundred reasons why to me that wasn't the case... but in the end, if it seemed different or better and therefore not derivative to someone else, that's all that matters to them, even if they're 6 years old.

So we reach a dead end. Which miraculously was figured out a few thosuand years ago, that there is no "truth" when it comes to things like this.

#13 Myrealana

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:46 AM

And there's the rub. Lloyd needs a simple education in what is truth and what is opinion.

Truth is "Lloyd thinks Season 4 of Enterprise was no better than any other." Opinion is "Season 4 of Enterprise was no better than any other."
Truth is "Most fans agree Season 4 of Enterprise was the best." Opinion is "Season 4 of Enterprise is the best."
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#14 eber322

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 09:47 AM

The TRUTH is that "I am the smartest, best looking, stud of a muffin to ever walk this planet". I believe that it's true and feel that my statement is correct therefore, it must be true. Hang your heads in shame men as all the women of the world throw themselves at my feet! lol
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#15 Podi2

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 11:52 AM

QUOTE (eber322 @ Sep 6 2007, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The TRUTH is that "I am the smartest, best looking, stud of a muffin to ever walk this planet". I believe that it's true and feel that my statement is correct therefore, it must be true. Hang your heads in shame men as all the women of the world throw themselves at my feet! lol



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#16 joxerfan

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE
Truth is "Most fans agree Season 4 of Enterprise was the best." Opinion is "Season 4 of Enterprise is the best."


Slight correction; Truth would be "One person who might or might not actually ever even have seen the show, and might live in Kazakhstan, wrote anonymously that most fans agree that Season 4 of Enterprise was the best, and might or might not actually believe this about most fans." Opinion would be "Most fans agree Season 4 of Enterprise was the best." There's not any official definion of "fan," so there's no way ever to determine this.

#17 Avivaldi72

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:27 PM

I liked almost all of the 4th season. I really liked the Vulcan story arc. I didn't care for the final episode. AT ALL.
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#18 LloydChristmas07

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 01:00 AM

QUOTE (Avivaldi72 @ Sep 6 2007, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't care for the final episode. AT ALL.


I think most would agree that is the truth laugh.gif

#19 -Deleted

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:04 AM

QUOTE (kylenin51 @ Sep 5 2007, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, the stories for Season 4 had much more depth than the stories from Season 1 and 2. Which I suppose is understandable. Seasons 1 and 2 were mostly made up of one-episode stories, while Season 4 was mostly made up of two-episode and three-episode stories. And beyond that, the two-episode and three-episode story arcs were connected to each other (like "Borderland" connects to "Bound", "The Augments" connects to "Affliction" and "Divergence"). And, of course, there's all of the connections to the other Trek shows, like:

Dr. Arik Soong (the great-grandfather of Dr. Noonien Soong - Data's creator - TNG) - "Borderland"
The Orions (from various TOS episode, inlcuding "Journey to Babel") - "Borderland" and "Bound"
The Briar Patch (from Star Trek: Insurrection) - "The Augments"
Botany Bay (from the TOS episode "Space Seed" and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan) - "The Augments"
The Forge (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear" and the DS9 episode "Change of Heart") - "The Forge"
A Sehlat (from the TAS episode "Yesteryear") - "The Forge"
T'Pau (from the TOS episode "Amok Time") - "Awakening" and "Kir'Shara"
The Organians (from the TOS episode "Errand of Mercy") - "Observer Effect"
The Remans (from Star Trek: Nemesis) - "United"
The Human-Looking Klingons (all of TOS) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
Section 31 (various DS9 episodes) - "Affliction" and "Divergence"
The Tholians (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
Gorn (from the TOS episode "Arena") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"
The Defiant (from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web") - "In A Mirror, Darkly"

I'm kind of running out of time here, but you get the idea. There's a lot of connections to the other shows (mostly TOS, but Enterprise does take place closer to TOS than the other shows, so ...). There were a few in Season 1 and 2, though, but not nearly as much as 4. Season 3 had the least, but they were kind of busy with the whole Xindi conflict at the time.

That's basically why I think Season 4 is better than the rest. It was crammed with more "stuff". Stuff that kept me coming back for more. Impatiently.


Yeah, Season 4 was definitely better.
I did like some of prequel stories like the one with human looking klingons (finally ther is an answer) but for some reason episodes with arik Soong were too much.
In what season were episode with Borg ?

#20 kylenin51

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:35 AM

QUOTE (Hellboy @ Sep 7 2007, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In what season was the episode with the Borg?


That was the Season 2 episode "Regeneration".
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