Soldier with hat image debunked, I know this is an old show but... Rating Options

[Public_New_Sense]

Upon further examination of this one, they don't appear to be the same shot. Amazingly close, but not quite. For one, the shoulder, from neck to furthest distance, is wrong. And it's typical of Grant to stand this way. If you watch closely you'll see him do it a lot. I could be wrong but it doesn't appear to be so.

[DustinTheWind]

What about cold air coming from around a door or window? Or heat coming from something like a vent? Those are invisible but they show up on thermal, right?

Nope. Air doesn't show up on themal cameras.. hot or cold. Here is an image of a stovetop burner in operation. What color is the air?

[fozio1]

Nope. Air doesn't show up on themal cameras.. hot or cold. Here is an image of a stovetop burner in operation. What color is the air?

Thanks for clearing that up for me - I wasn't really sure.

[DustinTheWind]

Upon further examination of this one, they don't appear to be the same shot. Amazingly close, but not quite. For one, the shoulder, from neck to furthest distance, is wrong. And it's typical of Grant to stand this way. If you watch closely you'll see him do it a lot. I could be wrong but it doesn't appear to be so.

Dreamsinger has never claimed they were the same shot. He has only pointed out how similar the two images are and how likely it is that it was grant reflected on the locker. I think the comparison images back that up 100%.

[boobear46]

Ok, I've just gotta pipe up on this subject. I'm sick of people saying they've debunked it. I will give you one very good piece of evidence to show that it is NOT Grant. Watch This and notice that while the image is taken, the soldier is standing perfectly upright. And what is Grant doing? Why he's walking and moving around! That's pretty impressive if a piece of electronic equipment can make you stand perfectly still while moving around.

Oh my goodness, who can argue with logic like that? Because of course editing can't make it look like he was walking when he wasn't, and of course if they were going to fake it they wouldn't use the before mentioned editing. Give me a break. It wasn't captured in the infirmary, they took it back to their office and messed with it. who cares what Grant was doing when they supposedly caught it? He didn't really catch it, he made it.

[Public_New_Sense]

Dreamsinger has never claimed they were the same shot. He has only pointed out how similar the two images are and how likely it is that it was grant reflected on the locker. I think the comparison images back that up 100%.

Oh, I see now. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Bowmore]

So say it is grant.... why is the 2 glowing?

Ohh thats easy, because glossy white ( as the two is) has the high emission factor and dull black has low.

So if you looked at yourself thru a thermal imager standing infront of a dull black wall , there would be no reflection of you in that wall. Why ? well because the dull black color absorbs your infrared radiation.

If you on the other hand stand infront of a white glossy wall the reflection of you would be almost perfect (almost like a mirror ) .

Guess what happens when you stand infront of a wall where half is white glossy and the other half is black dull ....... well you would see half of you .

When we calibrate our thermal imagers at work, we use a dull black body with a known temp, and then compare its result to the object we are interested in analyzing with the imager. That way we can set the correct emission correction in the thermal imager based on the kind of surface we perform our measurements on later.

So if the locker is almost dull military green and the two is white glossy ... how do you think the imager reacts to that, i do believe they also used autorange in that actual footage, so the settings on the imager is .... BS .

This should help you understand without going deeper into the subject.

[boobear46]

Ohh thats easy, because glossy white ( as the two is) has the high emission factor and dull black has low.

So if you looked at yourself thru a thermal imager standing infront of a dull black wall , there would be no reflection of you in that wall. Why ? well because the dull black color absorbs your infrared radiation.

If you on the other hand stand infront of a white glossy wall the reflection of you would be almost perfect (almost like a mirror ) .

Guess what happens when you stand infront of a wall where half is white glossy and the other half is black dull ....... well you would see half of you .

When we calibrate our thermal imagers at work, we use a dull black body with a known temp, and then compare its result to the object we are interested in analyzing with the imager. That way we can set the correct emission correction in the thermal imager based on the kind of surface we perform our measurements on later.

This should help you understand without going deeper into the subject.

Hey thanks. I always wondered how they did that. Thanks for clarifying the subject.

[ifpthenq]

Oh my goodness, who can argue with logic like that? Because of course editing can't make it look like he was walking when he wasn't, and of course if they were going to fake it they wouldn't use the before mentioned editing. Give me a break. It wasn't captured in the infirmary, they took it back to their office and messed with it. who cares what Grant was doing when they supposedly caught it? He didn't really catch it, he made it.

I have to agree at least partially with boobear--there is no way to know if the footage of them capturing the image, as they enter the room, coincides with a particular take of them entering the room. We know that much of their material must be reshot and staged as a tool to recreate actual events (such as--oh a call from Donna, ooh lets talk in the Rooter van about our future in GH, lets get a really cool piece of footage of them approaching the site with the TAPS van, etc...); how do we know that in their many hours of shooting at the Crescent--they did not just recreate their entrance to the morgue? Without accurate timestamping this footage is very difficult to accept at face value. PGA

[Dreamsinger]

I have to agree at least partially with boobear--there is no way to know if the footage of them capturing the image, as they enter the room, coincides with a particular take of them entering the room. We know that much of their material must be reshot and staged as a tool to recreate actual events (such as--oh a call from Donna, ooh lets talk in the Rooter van about our future in GH, lets get a really cool piece of footage of them approaching the site with the TAPS van, etc...); how do we know that in their many hours of shooting at the Crescent--they did not just recreate their entrance to the morgue? Without accurate timestamping this footage is very difficult to accept at face value. PGA

We do know for certain that the footage shown is not the footage of when they caught the apparition. If you look at the footage of the thermal imager, the person shooting that footage was stationary. Also, when J&G go back later to re-create it they say that they were panning and were stationary, which is not the case as they enter the room in the footage we are shown.

** EDIT **
If you haven't checked out this page then you might want to see this analysis
http://www.darkrealmlabs.com/scifi/gh213

[Pinkberry]

Remember the LEAP Castle trip?The EVP was a female saying:"I'm dying,I'll die now".
(She may be a replay of a domestic homicide victim)

Thought this was hilarious. My last words will definately be "Im dying, Ill die now" in case anyone was wondering.

IWe know that much of their material must be reshot and staged as a tool to recreate actual events (such as--oh a call from Donna, ooh lets talk in the Rooter van about our future in GH, lets get a really cool piece of footage of them approaching the site with the TAPS van, etc...)

Or how in one episode Donna was driving to "visit her aunt (or something)" and saw a Rooter van outside someones random house and thought perhaps it might be Grant and Jasons Rooter truck (like theres no other Rooter vans on the Eastern Seaboard) and THEN thought it would be okay to pop into said strangers house and have a chat with Grant and Jason in the basement about a case..If that was my house I would wonder why these guys arent fixing my toilet and instead are talking to their random buddy about ghosts.
Hypothetically...
Do you think she knocked on the door and was like "HAI IM DONNA I WANT TO TALK TO YOURE PLUMBERS KTHNX"

[boobear46]

Thought this was hilarious. My last words will definately be "Im dying, Ill die now" in case anyone was wondering.
Or how in one episode Donna was driving to "visit her aunt (or something)" and saw a Rooter van outside someones random house and thought perhaps it might be Grant and Jasons Rooter truck (like theres no other Rooter vans on the Eastern Seaboard) and THEN thought it would be okay to pop into said strangers house and have a chat with Grant and Jason in the basement about a case..If that was my house I would wonder why these guys arent fixing my toilet and instead are talking to their random buddy about ghosts.
Hypothetically...
Do you think she knocked on the door and was like "HAI IM DONNA I WANT TO TALK TO YOURE PLUMBERS KTHNX"

that was part of my question also. But my thing is how do they know when Donna is going to call? Or do they have cameramen with them at all time, just on the off chance she might call? Like the toy's of terror episode, at the beginning they were working on a hot water heater, how do we know this? Because they had a camera going while they were fixing it. Were they making a self help movie? If not, then there is really no reason to have a camera with you at your job.

[Dreamsinger]

Upon further examination of this one, they don't appear to be the same shot. Amazingly close, but not quite. For one, the shoulder, from neck to furthest distance, is wrong. And it's typical of Grant to stand this way. If you watch closely you'll see him do it a lot. I could be wrong but it doesn't appear to be so.

This isn't a typical stance for Grant. He was leaning forward to look down the morgue table. I chose that shot because it was from the same episode.

[Bowmore]

Hey thanks. I always wondered how they did that. Thanks for clarifying the subject.

No problem

[tuesbails]

Or how in one episode Donna was driving to "visit her aunt (or something)" and saw a Rooter van outside someones random house and thought perhaps it might be Grant and Jasons Rooter truck (like theres no other Rooter vans on the Eastern Seaboard) and THEN thought it would be okay to pop into said strangers house and have a chat with Grant and Jason in the basement about a case..If that was my house I would wonder why these guys arent fixing my toilet and instead are talking to their random buddy about ghosts.
Hypothetically...
Do you think she knocked on the door and was like "HAI IM DONNA I WANT TO TALK TO YOURE PLUMBERS KTHNX"

I thought the same thing when I saw the episode where she "just stopped by". I found it very odd that she would do that.

that was part of my question also. But my thing is how do they know when Donna is going to call? Or do they have cameramen with them at all time, just on the off chance she might call? Like the toy's of terror episode, at the beginning they were working on a hot water heater, how do we know this? Because they had a camera going while they were fixing it. Were they making a self help movie? If not, then there is really no reason to have a camera with you at your job.

I also find it strange about the camera men being there. Obviously they wouldn't be always following them around all the time hoping to catch a scene where they might be talking about an investigation. How boring would that be?!?! It does seem a little to forced to me.

[Public_New_Sense]

Thought this was hilarious. My last words will definately be "Im dying, Ill die now" in case anyone was wondering.
Or how in one episode Donna was driving to "visit her aunt (or something)" and saw a Rooter van outside someones random house and thought perhaps it might be Grant and Jasons Rooter truck (like theres no other Rooter vans on the Eastern Seaboard) and THEN thought it would be okay to pop into said strangers house and have a chat with Grant and Jason in the basement about a case..If that was my house I would wonder why these guys arent fixing my toilet and instead are talking to their random buddy about ghosts.
Hypothetically...
Do you think she knocked on the door and was like "HAI IM DONNA I WANT TO TALK TO YOURE PLUMBERS KTHNX"

LMAO

That's great! LOL I thought the same thing--although, not so satirically LOL--and figured, even tho' I thought I'd been paying attention, I must've missed something. I didn't think any of the show was supposed to be set up. The more I come here, the more I smell set-ups and the more my little heart gets crushed. It's not that I'm dumb. I guess I just wanted to be proven wrong, that there are ghosts. Still a skeptic.

[DustinTheWind]

that was part of my question also. But my thing is how do they know when Donna is going to call? Or do they have cameramen with them at all time, just on the off chance she might call? Like the toy's of terror episode, at the beginning they were working on a hot water heater, how do we know this? Because they had a camera going while they were fixing it. Were they making a self help movie? If not, then there is really no reason to have a camera with you at your job.

It is if their job is to produce a docu-soap. Obviously, all that sort of thing is scripted, rehearsed and probably multiple takes are recorded to use the best ones. People have to remember, this isn't a documentary, it's an entertainment show. We see what they want us to see. Hear what they want us to hear.

[generalragland]

I can't believe people don't know this by now.....

Ok devil's advocate:

Couple of problems.

1) They debunked the fool out of this WITH THE LOW BATTERY and could NOT get any reflection off the locker.

2) Why did the 2 show heat? Had the locker been heated or even RELFECT grant would have had to put his face and body ONTO the locker for it to show in the thermal.

3) The "hat" image still loos like a hat, so Grant's hair style. Even the bangs really don't bear the brim look from the thermal. It is close I will "grant" you, but I think they went to a lot of trouble FIRST HAND MIND YOU THERE AT THE LOCKER NOT IN THEORY to debunk that image.

Just pitchin' in.

The General

[Dreamsinger]

Ok devil's advocate:

Couple of problems.

1) They debunked the fool out of this WITH THE LOW BATTERY and could NOT get any reflection off the locker.

2) Why did the 2 show heat? Had the locker been heated or even RELFECT grant would have had to put his face and body ONTO the locker for it to show in the thermal.

3) The "hat" image still loos like a hat, so Grant's hair style. Even the bangs really don't bear the brim look from the thermal. It is close I will "grant" you, but I think they went to a lot of trouble FIRST HAND MIND YOU THERE AT THE LOCKER NOT IN THEORY to debunk that image.

Just pitchin' in.

The General

1) They didn't try to get a reflection off the locker, they tried to recreate the incident by going back to where they thought they were standing. Had they really tried to get a reflection they would have stood in front of the locker.

2) Read up on what Bowmore stated earlier and read up on thermal reflections.

3) Pareidolia can lead to false conclusions (matrixing). And NO THEY DIDN'T TRY TO GET A REFLECTION OFF THE LOCKER.

You don't seem to be reading what is said, just closing a blind eye to it and saying that it is an apparition. Also, if you read through the threads here you will find that the thermal imager will see heat radiated from something with significant mass. Air does not have significant mass.

[Gogzilla]

There's still discussion on this? This was debunked when the show first aired.

I'm sure the show's people would never admit it, becuause this is known as one of the best pieces of "evidence" ever from the show.