26 replies to this topic

[ariallie]

Thought I'd start this discussion now that the episode has aired and no one else has done so.

This show gets weirder, more paranoid and more fascinating as the season progresses. For all of us who lived through Battlestar Galactica's Cylon versus Human "Us versus Them" discussions, this show is taking it to a whole other level, with multilple "them"s (or is it "us"es?).

I think the whole "Move 'em into the ward right now" idea was not too well thought out. Why did Helen think there would be no backlash? Or is it all part of her orchestrated plan. I keep thinking she knows more about what's going to happen than is possible. Has she already lived through all of this before, perhaps this is her second time through the "time machine"? Sometimes she seems to know what's coming up, but then she'll seem genuinely surprised by something. But that could come from something she did the last time through changing the timeline... I'm getting a bit confused. Please, Helen, explain yourself sooner rather than later.

Gee, I'm beginning to have lots of warm, kind memories of Caprica's Jordan Durham, after seeing Brian Markinson in his new role as Greg Addison. But he does make one think about how we are manipulated to fear what we don't understand in order to allow some groups to gain more power over everyone. I loved his response to Will, effectively saying "Duh, you idiot; we've been a police state for a while now!" As much as I disparage over-reliance on the internet by many people, I think it does empower people to get all points of view out there, uncensored (so far, anyway). The more we discuss all views, the less likely we are to be duped by those promoting their own hidden agendas.

Glad to see Tesla back in the fold, even if it cost him his experimental data. He was just another one of Addison's pawns, I guess.

I love Christopher Heyerdahl's acting ability. Through all the "Bigfoot" makeup, I could see Biggie still conflicted between the brainwashing and the old Biggie. One moment you can tell he loves and trusts Helen, but the next, he wants to be a rebel abnormal. Biggie's not back to himself yet, if he'll ever be. I hope Druitt makes an appearance next week. And Ashley (Please!!!).

Regarding the promo for next week:

Spoiler

For some reason I haven’t liked Caleb; now I know why. I think his "we will be their gods!" is the royal "we" because I just can’t see him sharing his planned "god" status with others. He's kind of reminiscent of humanoid Cylon Number One, John Cavil, in Battlestar Galactica: he preached the humanoid Cylons were all equal, but that changed when any of them did things that were not part of Cavil's original brainwashing program. He took his "number" way too seriously.

[Mreen]

This all looks like one of Helen's long range plans with many forethought out ramifications. Much like her plan to get Sanctuary removed from the UN, she's got a real agenda here. She agreed far too quickly to all the rebel plans, and tried far too little (tho in a funny way) to get Addison to listen.

Putting Will in Addison's camp seemed like a normal maneuver when it started, I was only surprised that it turned out he wasn't acting, that Helen hadn't told him to expect it and pretend to reluctantly join to send them info. (I still wouldn't be surprised if it was deep laid plot between Will and Helen and he's got a bug on him 24 hours a day so he has to keep up the pretense.) We'll see if Will is pawn or partner in the next ep.

Biggie seemed torn - interesting Henry didn't correct Biggie when he claimed "You always knew I wanted to be free." and remind him, he always was free. I guess Henry is willing to let Biggie run the gamut with his head game.

In fact, I had one thought that large parts or maybe the entire ep is taking place inside Biggie's head, with Sally the Mermaid, for him to work out his feelings thoughts and memories, and separate from the implanted ones. Probably not, but it would be interesting.

Edited by Mreen, 24 December 2011 - 12:46 PM.

[Rhuen1]

Honestly she's doing exactly what I would have had her do. This whole thing feels orchistrated by her, with a few minor set backs, to expose the existance of Abnormals to the world, and in such a way as to make SKEW look horrible in the process.

Honestly its long over-do. As soon as this whole SKEW hunting Abnormals thing started I thought it was time the world came to know of their existance. Up till this point their greatest defense was being a secret to the general public. However that has become a major weakness as it allows the governments of the world to hunt them down, torture them, and even try to eradicate them with impunity. If the public knows they exist, the government can't do that anymore.

In other words its time to go (X-men) with this show, the public reactions of course will be like X-men, envy, hate groups, hunters, but at the same time, equal rights speeches, we are people too, unity for all on Earth, total back and forth.

[Mreen]

Fair point - I was going to add, the revelation was my favorite part of the ep <g>

[DarkArcherPrince]

First off, let me start by saying that this was the calm before the storm. Helen's speech on camera changes EVERYTHING. It also slapped Addison in the face as in, "Well, let's see how you handle things now, you *ssh*l*."

Second, I HATE Biggie. I hope he dies. His brainwashing has gotten so bad that he's mean to Kate JUST BECAUSE she's going to marry Garris. The Biggie we know and love NEVER showed ANY PREJUDICE toward ANYBODY - EVER.

Third, I find it really suspicious that shortly after the 12-minute Wall Street crash, Nikola Tesla gets fired. I think these events are directly connected.

Fourth, I did not expect Caleb to suddenly just decide to start spreading the message of peace. "If it's too good to be true, it probably is."

Fifth, I think Helen Magnus planned all this out. Aligning with the insurgents, locking Will out after Addison 'enlists' him, even appearing on the news - I really think all of this was pre-planned. The fact that she locked Will out makes all of this convince Addison that she is a terrorist too. I think that Helen Magnus put the plan into place the very instant Will was recalled ...


Sixth, Henry's armor system. I think that it will be used before the season is over ...

Seventh, where the h*ll is the UN Security Chief. I think we will see her again very soon ...

Eighth, if I was Helen Magnus, I would force the Crixorum to 'help Addison change his mind' ...

Now for a some predictions:

1. Helen Magnus dies, possibly by Will Zimmerman's hand (all thanks to Addison)
2. Magnus kills Addison, then Will kills her
3. Abby quits the FBI
4. So does Will
5. Biggie dies - a very painful death (I no longer feel ANY remorse for this guy. I hope he burns in h*ll for eternity )
6. Addison can join him there ... actually, I think there's a special place in h*ll for them both...
7. Henry Foss heads into the fray, wearing his invention OR
8. Nikola Tesla heads into the fray, wearing Henry's invention, as only Tesla can control it via his electromagnetism
9. New sanctuary chain of command:
A. Head of the sanctuary network: Will Zimmerman
B. Head of the Old City Sanctuary: Abby Corrigan
C. Hollow Earth Liason: Kate Freelander
D. Liason to the above-ground settlement: Caleb
E. Technician Team: Nikola Tesla and Henry Foss

[Mreen]

I don't think Biggie was prejudiced against Kate for marrying someone from below. It looked like he is well aware of the plans to make the ward into a war zone, both to horrify the world seeing them mistreated, politically, and to make an above ground base to operate the war from - and he wants Kate to be far from danger, pushing both her and her finance to stay back from the colony.

As he is both brainwashed and in on the plot on some level, probably helping Caleb in some small way, less probably aware of Helen's plans on some level, this was the only way he could tell her without giving the game away.

Then again, I don't think being mean to Kate is all that big a deal, even to her, she's more concerned with what it means is wrong with Biggie's brain.

[Rhuen1]

I don't think Biggie was prejudiced against Kate for marrying someone from below. It looked like he is well aware of the plans to make the ward into a war zone, both to horrify the world seeing them mistreated, politically, and to make an above ground base to operate the war from - and he wants Kate to be far from danger, pushing both her and her finance to stay back from the colony.

As he is both brainwashed and in on the plot on some level, probably helping Caleb in some small way, less probably aware of Helen's plans on some level, this was the only way he could tell her without giving the game away.

Then again, I don't think being mean to Kate is all that big a deal, even to her, she's more concerned with what it means is wrong with Biggie's brain.

That's the impression I got.
Also fairly certain Helen put something in Biggie's hand when she was speaking to him in front of Caleb.

I am sure Helen was using Caleb the whole time knowing what would happen (these insurgents so far havn't really showed any real forsight or effectivness in their planning, they are ambitious, but pretty stupid about it. Showing how they clearly know very little about the surface). which would explain the shots from the next episode in the "coming up next time" which has Caleb and a few others attacking the Sanctuary.

[jessie66]

I agree that this feels like a long, LONG, range plan of Helen's. But I don't like that she's keeping Will in the dark. It makes it look like she doesn't trust him and if that is indeed the case then she's a moron. I mean he basically gave up what little of a life he had to come and work for her. And then to be treated like an outsider?

I dunno this whole season has felt out of sorts to me. Like they had this big picture to work towards but no idea how to actually get there. I hope the finale ties up some lose ends or this is a fan that will gladly walk away and never look back.

[shelleyp]

Sad to see a show I like dwindle into desperate actions to try and re-invent itself.

I thought the first part of Sanctuary for None was awful. Not as bad as the singing show, but bad.

Jumpy, jerky, abrupt shifts in focus, and a story line that leaves one going "meh".

I guess we'll see what happens with the next part, and if the writers can pull something remotely resembling success.

[Vendikarr]

I agree that this feels like a long, LONG, range plan of Helen's. But I don't like that she's keeping Will in the dark. It makes it look like she doesn't trust him and if that is indeed the case then she's a moron. I mean he basically gave up what little of a life he had to come and work for her. And then to be treated like an outsider?

The reason for keeping Will in the dark is simple. He is in the enemy camp, and his reactions to this situation have to be real. Magnus couldn't take the chance that Addison would see through any subterfuge on Will's part. Yea, it sucks for Will, but when has Magnus let his feeling come before executing one of her plans?

[DarkArcherPrince]

I agree that this feels like a long, LONG, range plan of Helen's. But I don't like that she's keeping Will in the dark. It makes it look like she doesn't trust him and if that is indeed the case then she's a moron. I mean he basically gave up what little of a life he had to come and work for her. And then to be treated like an outsider?

I dunno this whole season has felt out of sorts to me. Like they had this big picture to work towards but no idea how to actually get there. I hope the finale ties up some lose ends or this is a fan that will gladly walk away and never look back.

Or to make it appear that she doesn't trust him, from Addison's perspective

[DarkArcherPrince]

That's the impression I got.
Also fairly certain Helen put something in Biggie's hand when she was speaking to him in front of Caleb.

I am sure Helen was using Caleb the whole time knowing what would happen (these insurgents so far havn't really showed any real forsight or effectivness in their planning, they are ambitious, but pretty stupid about it. Showing how they clearly know very little about the surface). which would explain the shots from the next episode in the "coming up next time" which has Caleb and a few others attacking the Sanctuary.

On second thought, I actually think that both of you are correct. Imagine if the conversation played out differently:

Biggie: Kate, it's not safe for you to be here. You should stay in Hollow Earth with Garris
Kate: I think I'm going to be just fine up here. Thanks for your concern

Then again, he didn't say anything mean until Kate mentioned him being a part of the wedding ...

Another possibility is that Helen reprogrammed him (into being a double agent going undercover) instead of deprogramming him

This might a five-way war:

1. Will Zimmerman and his FBI lackeys (Including Abby)
2. Addison and SCIU
3. Helen Magnus and the Sanctuary Network
4. Caleb and his pacifists
5. Biggie and the Insurgents

[Rhuen1]

I have to add that the revelation of the Abnormals to the general public is long over-due (and probably should have happened when that guy was all over the news flying around with that symbio-parasite super-suit).

When the show started we had the feeling of the Sanctuary Network keeping them a secret from the world for both the safety of the Abnormals and general public, then Governments it turns out know about them, then all manner of scientists, secret criminal syndicates, then drug dealers/poachers/smaller level Mafia type criminals, then constantly new criminals and wealthy individuals.

Now we have the CIA and FBI in on it (which to mean screams time bomb for the public to find out).

Its been long over-due for this thing to go full Meta-Human/HUman relations story line.

[ariallie]

When it aired, I missed the first ten minutes. I watched it On Demand recently and was finally able to breathe a sigh of relief about the funding. It was pretty apparent from Feliz's comments that he'd been hired to manage Helen's money, not give her funding. Yep, apparently she invested heavily while reliving that 113 years. But I'm still not sure what the whole "Wall Street 12 minutes" is all about. Perhaps it allowed her to manipulate something in order to have leverage over power players???? If so, she's come a long way from not wanting to change history. Although, technically, she's in the current timeline, so perhaps she's just doing a little insider trading. She'd just be doing what we've recently learned members of the United States Congress are allowed to do, while anyone else would be thrown in jail for it...

[Mreen]

Good thing for her she's not a US citizen <g> I'm sure she did it as a way to organize her money elsewhere, throw a general monkey wrench into world politics economic wise, and stir up the hornets nest so those against abnormals would be thinking in fear and anger instead figuring out what she had done.

And no, she doesnt have to worry about changing history since she reappeared in Sanctuary in the second ep. In fact she's been out to change the world big time ever since, starting with getting the Sanctuary out from under the UN, so they wouldn't be bound by bureaucrats out to destroy abnormals or hating to fight the political trend against them.

[Blkops]

I think that because they made such a huge scene out of the money/Wall St. thing that it has
more to do with the ultimate plan she's hatched from the beginning...if it was just about her money, etc., they would have done it a different way. It wouldn't surprise me if the money was used to purchase the buildings that the 'abnormals' moved near to.

[DarkArcherPrince]

The program description for Sancatuary on Verizon FIOS says this:

Magnus is forced into a corner when the new Abnormal Homeland comes under threat; Henry and Tesla learn that SCIU has a new against abnormals; Bigfoot and Kate launch an investigation into Caleb's rise to power.

First part: BORING
Second Part: BORING
Third Part: I have a theory

Remember when Helen Magnus shut Wall Street down for 12 minutes? I think that she did this in order to help Caleb rise to the top. I think that there is corruption on Wall Street accounts, and this corruption was directly connected to Caleb. When Wall Street shut down, the connections were disrupted and money was paid out to Caleb, enabling him to come out on top.

[ariallie]

The program description for Sancatuary on Verizon FIOS says this:

Magnus is forced into a corner when the new Abnormal Homeland comes under threat; Henry and Tesla learn that SCIU has a new against abnormals; Bigfoot and Kate launch an investigation into Caleb's rise to power.

First part: BORING
Second Part: BORING
Third Part: I have a theory

Remember when Helen Magnus shut Wall Street down for 12 minutes? I think that she did this in order to help Caleb rise to the top. I think that there is corruption on Wall Street accounts, and this corruption was directly connected to Caleb. When Wall Street shut down, the connections were disrupted and money was paid out to Caleb, enabling him to come out on top.

If the above refers to Sanctuary for None, Part 2, then it should be in a spoiler "box."

Regarding your comments,

Spoiler

have you already seen the episode? If not, the "BORING" comments have no validity - yet. Given the FIOS comment about Bigfoot's and Kate's investigation, I would think Helen already has concerns about Caleb's true motivation, so I doubt she's rushing right in to give him the power the promo indicated he desires. I think the Wall Street "12 minutes" has more to do with Addison's side than giving anything to the abnormal leadership. Helen has not made any huge blunders yet, so I would hold off on insinuating Caleb has fooled her.

[Viper5783]

I agree that this feels like a long, LONG, range plan of Helen's. But I don't like that she's keeping Will in the dark. It makes it look like she doesn't trust him and if that is indeed the case then she's a moron. I mean he basically gave up what little of a life he had to come and work for her. And then to be treated like an outsider?

I dunno this whole season has felt out of sorts to me. Like they had this big picture to work towards but no idea how to actually get there. I hope the finale ties up some lose ends or this is a fan that will gladly walk away and never look back.

I totally agree!!! Everything that is happening is okay EXCEPT.....................Magnus' treatment of Will!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE has every right to be fuming at her for consistently being ignored, told to just trust, and being left in the dark now!!!!!

I'd have blown a gasket by now, and I'd never work for her again, and that just sucks since they make up the entire show really

[Viper5783]

The reason for keeping Will in the dark is simple. He is in the enemy camp, and his reactions to this situation have to be real. Magnus couldn't take the chance that Addison would see through any subterfuge on Will's part. Yea, it sucks for Will, but when has Magnus let his feeling come before executing one of her plans?

That's an easy answer to make. But there are ramifications for that action. It is no way to treat your most loyal and helpful friend and protege. It destroys the whole relationship!!! So even if w/e her plan is succeeds, if the show follows real relationships, Will and her are destroyed.

And the answer to the final question, is never, and that's why she's really a ........... in the end unfortunately. Because, she should consider him or others if she has any care at all for anybody but herself and her greatness/success.