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Vince and the Guard


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#1 Pixydoodle

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

In the season 3 finale, it was revealed that Vince is the leader of the Guard and in that episode, he said something to the effect that they have always been his. What do you think this means?

I am not sure but keep coming back to the thought that maybe Vince and Dave are immortal - not in the same way as Au/Lu/Sa but in a way that they can be any age they want to be and this also explains why they could own so much property in Haven

#2 mcdules

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

seems like it all goes back to the family tree in the opening credits~ maybe they are immortal as a different puniishment, perhaps for their role in perpetuating the curse (troubles)---not causing them: perhaps they are tryign in vain to figure out the best way to move on to another realm, like finally leaving this life for the next out of sheer exhaustion?
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#3 AuntCNH

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

Maybe it's a family thing and the first born son runs it. Kind of like a moffia family, the oldest son takes over when the dad gets wacked ( I used that word because they tend to not live to ripe old ages).

#4 Peridot81

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:41 AM

i know those brothers are supposed to be the quirky somewhat creepy old guys in town, but don't you find it odd that they are almost always together and that tandem bicycle they ride. I think their power/trouble works in tandem like their bicycle and yes i think they have probably been around since the founding of Haven (In s2 Fear and Loathing Vince knew too much about the history of the puzzle and its origins so much that Audrey asked him how he knew so much and he just said he was a good researcher but he was most likley lying). i think he was there when it happened.
I think they are afraid of something or someone and they have decided to just keep the secrets of Haven well hidden and in exchange they probably get immortality and money accrued over all those centuries. Vince's tattoo appears and disappears like Julia Carr's did which makes me think that they may be the families from which the rest of the troubled came from over the generations or perhaps their powers are different somehow.
I think Vince's power must be pretty big since Max Hansen was afraid of him and all those younger Guard members are afraid of him even though he is an old man. Remember them saying "it's my turn this time" to Arla as Tommy at that fishing cabin. Those two are not what they seem at all and i think they may be right in the middle of all this.
I also think Dave killed the CK and Vince helped.

#5 Yellowred

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

Y'think the brothers would have been badly bruised/injured after the beating by the BGK, like hospitalization but Vince was at Nathan's "I'm glad he is alive" party at Duke's. Dave knock the begeezes out of Vince with a metal container and lord behold he has tied up Dave and put him into the trunk. Later, Vince is at the barn telling everyone he is the leader of the Guard, a group which has been around since the troubles began. Vince also knew about Duke's troubles as well as the Rev but commanded his minions not to kill Duke. Garland, I hope will be in season 4 because he is the one to summoned Audrey through Agent Howard. Dave is another story all in itself, but I think both brothers are troubled and like others have suggested on this board, the brothers maybe a central part to Haven but have not found out a way to stop the troubles forever. Whatever Arla told Dave was not the truth and Agent Howard is not telling the truth as well.

#6 milton333

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

I don't know if it's another timeline oddity or what, but the brothers seemed to be in their mid-20s to early 30s in 1955. Dave's hairline was receding pretty significantly when Sarah appeared, so I'd say minimum of mid-20s. That would make them at least 80 on the show. The absolute youngest they could possibly be is 73 to have been adults when Sarah appeared, and they must have been older than 18, they'd already started the newspaper. The actors playing them are 66 and 71, and honestly by looking at them I'd say they look to be mid-60s. They appear to be 10-15 years younger than they should be based on the timeline.

I don't know if this is a continuity error or part of what's odd about Vince and Dave, they're aging but not quite as fast as they should be? They're far more robust and active than you'd expect them to be based on what their ages should be.

Or is Haven not part of our universe, so that time works a bit differently?

#7 Oddbe5

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

Sixty years is the new 40 years.

The announcent of Vince's power position fells anticlimatic, almost hokey.
I'm not convinced revealing that information then serves the story well. I'm not comfortable with the feeling "Haven" is like "Lost" tossing out a bunch of possibilities to flash before viewer's eyes. The season finale feels like characters running around in a tizzy with no place to go, but are there, and then maybe not there, and then poof.
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#8 milton333

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

The announcent of Vince's power position fells anticlimatic, almost hokey.
I'm not convinced revealing that information then serves the story well. I'm not comfortable with the feeling "Haven" is like "Lost" tossing out a bunch of possibilities to flash before viewer's eyes. The season finale feels like characters running around in a tizzy with no place to go, but are there, and then maybe not there, and then poof.


Yep. Here's the thing - when the show's premise is that there's some sort of mystery at its core, the show's creators and writers HAVE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THE MYSTERY, from day 1. Every episode must be written with an awareness of what the big secret is. There's still room for twists and turns and creativity as the show progresses.

However, I'm thinking that this is the point in Haven where I get the sinking feeling I've gotten with other shows that the show's creators and writers don't actually know the secret. That they're making it up as they go along. And that is profoundly disappointing.

I remember listening to a Ron Moore podcast from Battlestar where he said that the reason Starbuck died in that vortex deal was that he just got a wacky idea and threw it out during a writing session, "I know, let's just kill Starbuck!" and the writers were like, "yeah, that would be cool." And the whole premise that there was a bible to the show, that at least the bones of the story arcs were envisioned before the show was created, that was all destroyed. The Cylons didn't have a plan. Ron Moore didn't have a plan. Same deal with Lost, I think they scrambled for a resolution, and it did not tie up all loose ends.

With this type of show, the writers need to have figured out the mystery at the beginning. I am not convinced that is the case with Haven. All I can say is that they better know what the cause of the Troubles is and how to resolve it before writing another episode, because there are already lots of continuity issues (didn't Simon Crocker's tombstone say April 1983, when CK died in May and Simon was looking for Audrey after that death? Didn't Simon recount the story of the mass death of the camping schoolkids in May 1983, or after his supposed death? Etc.)

#9 Pixydoodle

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:40 PM

there are already lots of continuity issues (didn't Simon Crocker's tombstone say April 1983, when CK died in May and Simon was looking for Audrey after that death? Didn't Simon recount the story of the mass death of the camping schoolkids in May 1983, or after his supposed death? Etc.)


This is my biggest issue with the show - the timeline is out of whack

#10 spunionring

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:46 PM

What makes you think that Vince and Dave are immortal? We have already seen flashbacks where they are very young. Couldnt Vince have simply started the guard after Sarah left and he realized the only way to handle the troubles was by facing hard truths?

I do agree that throughout the show it has kinda seemed like they were possibly the original troubled people / knew the nature of the trouble that is the root of the troubles... but just curious how it played out in this season finale it seems like they might not be so instrumental beyond simply trying to control things via the Guard since they met Sarah, when they probably found out about the Troubles to begin with.

#11 Lily77

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:29 AM

I wondered if they were (or at least Vince was) some kind of chameleon or body changer. He seems to know an awful lot of the town's history, like he'd seen it or been there rather than he researched it.

#12 Mreen

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

He's been researching it for over 50 years, with plenty of troubles to enhance his viewpoint. I'd be surprised if there were more sections of history that they didn't know.

Haven isn't the most continuity concerned show, they focus more on being ... a lovesick teen version of a Stephen King universe. Which is fine, their silliness actually makes the show a lot more watchable for me than if they were going for brutal horror.

But yes, the viewers often see the very large gaps in what they say happened in the past (or show happened in the past) and what they show happening now.

I will say it seems very likely that the brother that saw Sarah/Lucy as their most feared object, is likely the brother that killed her son.

#13 Crescent

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:48 PM

Vince's trouble, I think, is the meteor shower. he has been at the last three.
the teagues trouble began when the first teague clan member on his 27th year had an emotional crisis/event regarding an audrey/sarah/lucy clan member and a hanson clan member. possibly discovering that two clans were related...
the only way this disappears is if lucy/sarah/audry family member left. She couldnt be with the hansen or around the teague and she loved the clans and town enough to rid them of their troubles by leaving.

i feel your right that one of the teagues tried to kill the colorado kid.

there has to be some negative consequence for nathan playing with time like he did. nevermind that he and sarah never got to see their son grow up or he was left without parents. (sarcasm).

#14 Mreen

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

Actually I think the time travel was meant to have positive consequences.

She fell in love with Nathan in one life, found her son in the next, and finally got her whole family together in this one. I think that's the key to the fix for the troubles, having the love of her whole family, mother, father and son - the three of them can do something to save the town.

And possibly Duke's nullifying the curse curse can play a part in it as well.

#15 aredburn

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

And there cant be negative consequences when things happened the way they should have. Nathan and Duke stirred the past towards the right direction, so any consequence is good.

#16 Mreen

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

well... as already pointed out, there are negative consequences. They didn't get to raise their kid, and the Kid is stuck to the Barn right now, doomed till the curse is ended. But it does appear to be the key to saving everyone, nonetheless.

#17 aredburn

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

James being stuck in the barn isn't a consequence though, not direct anyway, and if we were to think that way, then Duke going to the past had bad consequences too, since Roy is dead because of him, Simon hated Lucy because of it, and so on.

But then again if James had never been born, then the Colorado Kid story would have never happened, and that's what made Audrey stay in the first place.

#18 Yellowred

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:49 PM

The brothers are a important part of the puzzle and heck they both know a whole lot about Haven just like the Chief.

In the past I have always said that Nathan and Duke were somehow "blood" relatives such as a possbility of their mother's being sisters. Heck the only mention of Nate's mom was in the eppy where Nate finds out about his biological father, Max Hansen. But that was it and I haven't heard anything about Duke's mom or don't remember any discussion about her. That said, maybe the "blood" relationship is actually between Audrey and Duke. Their families were at one point "siblings" that went in total different directions.

Another thing tho, Vince and Dave were adamant about CK being buried in the grave which in my opinion, comes to the conclusion that they witnessed him being put into the box and they buried him themselves. Therefore, Lucy was the one that unearthed CK and took him to the barn. I would say that Duke was too young to help Lucy and assume it must have been the chief.

Still think that Dave was the one that killed CK.

#19 Pixydoodle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:29 PM

What makes you think that Vince and Dave are immortal? We have already seen flashbacks where they are very young. Couldnt Vince have simply started the guard after Sarah left and he realized the only way to handle the troubles was by facing hard truths?

I do agree that throughout the show it has kinda seemed like they were possibly the original troubled people / knew the nature of the trouble that is the root of the troubles... but just curious how it played out in this season finale it seems like they might not be so instrumental beyond simply trying to control things via the Guard since they met Sarah, when they probably found out about the Troubles to begin with.


We've seen Nathan's and Sarah's memories of them. We've never seen Vince or Dave flash back to their younger selves. Their ages could be illusion. We really don't know, so I am speculating some theories.

#20 Mreen

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:07 PM

Haven isn't that convoluted a show - we've seen them younger, they've talked about knowing her back then, and we've seen them older with each incarnation. I'd say they are wiley and well involved since Sarah's first days, perhaps with knowledge from their parents, but nothing about them implies immortality. All the immortals involved don't age - Audrey, Howard, and now her son.

Edited by Mreen, 15 February 2013 - 09:07 PM.





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