Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Health Care In the RTF: Socialist or Capitalist


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 t-Asarlai

t-Asarlai

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 0 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:25 PM

What kind was there.?
What kind do they need today.?

Tom Zarek (and tonite, GWB if i heard correctly on SS Benefits) was right. Something needs to be done. The Gardner is still going to work each day but nore than likely, his health plan is no longer existent and his Doctore isn't answering his calls anymore.

Does the RTF have a need for Socialized Medicine.?


Take it away.
Battlestar Galactica Spoken Here

http://www.mediablvd...p?showforum=180

#2 ColonialMarine

ColonialMarine

    Foo Fighter

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,194 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:30 PM

Quote:

Does the RTF have a need for Socialized Medicine.?




NAwwww...Just let them renew on Carousel.


The World has lost...
The Fight has just begun.


Posted Image

#3 Sector_001

Sector_001

    Returnee

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 859 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:39 PM

It's not like they have much in terms of an economy. Very limited in terms of goods to barter, and I don't expect that the doc can use a pair of pumps for treating President Rosilyn....Unless he forgot to pack his own pair.
"What'd y'all order a dead guy fer?"

the world is flat............believe me yet?

#4 TheSnapdTurtle

TheSnapdTurtle

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,834 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does the RTF have a need for Socialized Medicine.?




NAwwww...Just let them renew on Carousel.



AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!
Soylent Green is made of people!!!!!!!!!
Posted Image

#5 ColonialMarine

ColonialMarine

    Foo Fighter

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,194 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

And it comes in a refreshing drink as well!!! Straight up or on the rocks! ENJOY!!
The World has lost...
The Fight has just begun.


Posted Image

#6 CartagiaII

CartagiaII

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

The RTF can no longer have any form of a Capitalistic society. In the RTF a doctor will have to see and care for patients because he has the skills and the abillities to do so, he can no longer do it for the hope of great financial gain. The gardner continues to care for the plants even though he's not getting paid anymore for several reasons 1) he probably enjoys it(I like my job) 2)what else is he going to do to pass the time? 3)when they do find an inhabitable planet his gardening skills will make him an invaluable member of society.
"I don't like the way he's looking at me...cut out his eye." Emperor Cartagia

#7 TheSnapdTurtle

TheSnapdTurtle

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,834 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:44 PM

Quote:

And it comes in a refreshing drink as well!!! Straight up or on the rocks! ENJOY!!





mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........
*****hic******
Posted Image

#8 t-Asarlai

t-Asarlai

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 0 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:53 PM

I am listening to GWB as we do this and there is definitely a need here for something to be done.

"We need to find a safe place to hide from The Cylons and we need to start making babies."

It seems they are going to have their own problems forty years down the line if they don't start prepping today for a future filled with retirees taxing the system.

Like I said, take it away.


Quote:

The RTF can no longer have any form of a Capitalistic society. In the RTF a doctor will have to see and care for patients because he has the skills and the abillities to do so, he can no longer do it for the hope of great financial gain. The gardner continues to care for the plants even though he's not getting paid anymore for several reasons 1) he probably enjoys it(I like my job) 2)what else is he going to do to pass the time? 3)when they do find an inhabitable planet his gardening skills will make him an invaluable member of society.



Battlestar Galactica Spoken Here

http://www.mediablvd...p?showforum=180

#9 Kaliyla

Kaliyla

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:46 PM

Quote:

Does the RTF have a need for Socialized Medicine.?




You're asking the wrong question. At this point, the pressing question is: "Does the RTF even have more than one or two doctors....For nearly 50,000 people?"
Do Not Start With Me, You Will Not Win

#10 alphaboi867

alphaboi867

    Minbari

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 290 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 08:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does the RTF have a need for Socialized Medicine.?




You're asking the wrong question. At this point, the pressing question is: "Does the RTF even have more than one or two doctors....For nearly 50,000 people?"




If Colonial passenger liners are anything like modern cruise ships, then yes. Figure 1-2 doctors per ship, plus a few nurses or medical technicians. Then consider doctors, nurses, other healthcare workers traveling as passengers. Now I doubt any of them have faclities resembling Galactica's, but it something. Then condsider if the Fleet has deep space research vessels, those would have better medical faclities. Cottle may be the only doctor on Galactica, but he's not the only one in the fleet.

#11 Kaliyla

Kaliyla

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 09:07 PM

Quote:

If Colonial passenger liners are anything like modern cruise ships, then yes. Figure 1-2 doctors per ship, plus a few nurses or medical technicians. Then consider doctors, nurses, other healthcare workers traveling as passengers.




True. But there are still no significant number of them (medical professionals) relative to the population of the RTF. Not every ship was a passanger liner akin to a cruise ship--Colonial One, for instance, is clearly mroe akin to an airliner, and several of the other vessels appear to be cargo ships of one kind or another. The Astral Queen was a prison transport....
Do Not Start With Me, You Will Not Win

#12 t-Asarlai

t-Asarlai

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 0 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 09:37 PM

I anticipated this question about the numbers of Health Care Professionals and started the thread about Education in the RTF

See you there.?

But what I want to know is what Roslin is going to do about Current Health Care needs since she seems bent on jump-starting an Economy that no longer exists. Who pays.? Who Benefits.?

Zarek had something to say about all of this and as soon as I find what Roslin's answer was, I'll post it.


Taken From "Colonial Day"
Quote:


Roslin: So if there are no objections, the chair will entertain motions to accept today's agenda as proposed.
Zarek: I have an objection.
Roslin: The chair recognizes Sagittaron.
Zarek: All of the items o要 your agenda are important, I agree. Ration distribution, education, medical services all very, very important but I'm frankly shocked to discover the most critical issue of all is nowhere to be found.


Later on in The Garden

Zarek: If things weren't so serious, I'd say that was funny. Look, there's no economy. There's no market, no industry, no capital. Money is worthless. And yet, we're all held hostage by the idea of the way things used to be. Look where we are. This man wakes up every morning, tugs o要 his boots and goes to work in this garden. Why, because it's his job? What job? He labors, but he gets no benefit! And he's not the o要ly o要e. Many of us are just still going through the motions of our old lives. The lawyers still act like lawyers but they have no clients! Businessmen still act like businessmen but have no business! President Roslin and her policies are all about holding o要to a fantasy! If we wanna survive, we need to completely restructure our lives. We need to think about the community of citizens. The group, not the individual. We need to completely free ourselves of the past, and operate as a collective.





Sounds Like Socialized Medicine is being proposed here.

Thamx again to Sad Geezer for the transcripts.


Quote:

Quote:

If Colonial passenger liners are anything like modern cruise ships, then yes. Figure 1-2 doctors per ship, plus a few nurses or medical technicians. Then consider doctors, nurses, other healthcare workers traveling as passengers.




True. But there are still no significant number of them (medical professionals) relative to the population of the RTF. Not every ship was a passanger liner akin to a cruise ship--Colonial One, for instance, is clearly mroe akin to an airliner, and several of the other vessels appear to be cargo ships of one kind or another. The Astral Queen was a prison transport....



Battlestar Galactica Spoken Here

http://www.mediablvd...p?showforum=180

#13 horse608

horse608

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,997 posts

Posted 28 April 2005 - 10:45 PM

Sorry, but you guys/gals are asking political questions rather than practical ones. FWIW I would speculate martial law is enforced. There are no medical supplies except what is being carried. Have to think operationally all private property is being claimed under the theory of imminent domain or necessity.

That being claimed, there has to be a black market for the supplies already thought about. Apparently, there are minority dissenters from the Astral Queen and political dissidents from other Colonies. What argues against a large number of criminals is the that the founding of the RTF was a sneak attack. This implies most of the citizens of the RTF were either well to do or workers. The writers had to add the Astral Queen to bring in the criminal element.

#14 t-Asarlai

t-Asarlai

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 0 posts

Posted 30 April 2005 - 01:03 PM

Quote:

I anticipated this question about the numbers of Health Care Professionals and started the thread about Education in the RTF

See you there.?

But what I want to know is what Roslin is going to do about Current Health Care needs since she seems bent on jump-starting an Economy that no longer exists. Who pays.? Who Benefits.?

Zarek had something to say about all of this and as soon as I find what Roslin's answer was, I'll post it.


Taken From "Colonial Day"
Quote:


Roslin: So if there are no objections, the chair will entertain motions to accept today's agenda as proposed.
Zarek: I have an objection.
Roslin: The chair recognizes Sagittaron.
Zarek: All of the items o要 your agenda are important, I agree. Ration distribution, education, medical services all very, very important but I'm frankly shocked to discover the most critical issue of all is nowhere to be found.


Later on in The Garden

Zarek: If things weren't so serious, I'd say that was funny. Look, there's no economy. There's no market, no industry, no capital. Money is worthless. And yet, we're all held hostage by the idea of the way things used to be. Look where we are. This man wakes up every morning, tugs o要 his boots and goes to work in this garden. Why, because it's his job? What job? He labors, but he gets no benefit! And he's not the o要ly o要e. Many of us are just still going through the motions of our old lives. The lawyers still act like lawyers but they have no clients! Businessmen still act like businessmen but have no business! President Roslin and her policies are all about holding o要to a fantasy! If we wanna survive, we need to completely restructure our lives. We need to think about the community of citizens. The group, not the individual. We need to completely free ourselves of the past, and operate as a collective.





Sounds Like Socialized Medicine is being proposed here.

Thanx again to Sad Geezer for the transcripts.







Okay.
I found Suicidal Roslin's answer...

Sort of.
She is jump-starting an economy and doesn't care diddly that there are thousands of un-employed people out there. My best guess here is that she is hoping for some sort of "Trickle-Down" plan to work. People are bartering for goods and services but as any tax-payer already knows, Government can't adequetly tax those earnings or trades or whatever.
Here's her answer to the current ecomonic woes besetting the fleet and it pretty much is clear she don't give diddly about diddly. I am also basing this on the parts of other conversations about utilizing those with four year degrees and etc to some extent for teaching positions??? which seems to be the beginnings of some sort of upper-class and lower-class system. Again, the Haves and the Have-Nots.

Someone better start to listen to Tom Zarek.

Quote:


Aboard Colonial One

Roslin: All right, currency. While bartering will continue for the foreseeable future, we do have a system in place now to take the economy back to a currency-based standard.

#6: Do you love her?
Baltar: Did you, um...
Roslin: Dr. Baltar... if something should happen to me, it is vital that you comprehend and are familiar with the political structures that are just beginning to fall into place here. Do you understand this?





Currency Based Standard.???
Who the frack is she kidding.?
What Currency.?
Who prints the Money.?
What about forgeries.?
Are you telling me there could also be some very wealthy Mr. and Mrs. Howells out there somewhere that packed for a three hour tour.???

Is Baltar The New Gilligan.?

We also know that she didn't care diddly about a particular Representives water needs either.
People need to conserve. But lacking the facilities to conserve properly, what were they supposed to do if the water flushes out the ship or whatever the problem was.?


.
Battlestar Galactica Spoken Here

http://www.mediablvd...p?showforum=180

#15 Rrowll-Captain

Rrowll-Captain

    Sleestak

  • Full Members
  • Pip
  • 79 posts

Posted 07 May 2005 - 10:51 PM

As a Republican and Capitalist, let me make an observation of the RTF'a situation:

It is a remnant, 40k + living souls crammed on just a few ships. That there is a civilian government is a miracle. There is no economy, and the 40k citizens are simply wards of the state.

As such, no economy means no capitalism. The doctors are a very scarce resource and therefore assets of the state, a state which has an interest in preserving as many human lives as possible.

Call is socialized medicine, but you can call any medical benefit awarded a military dependent a social benefit.

It would be fact, and certainly privatizing medicine under these circumstances would be impossible.

#16 GhostofLego

GhostofLego

    Cyborg

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,461 posts

Posted 08 May 2005 - 12:13 AM

Quote:

As a Republican and Capitalist, let me make an observation of the RTF'a situation:

It is a remnant, 40k + living souls crammed on just a few ships. That there is a civilian government is a miracle. There is no economy, and the 40k citizens are simply wards of the state.

As such, no economy means no capitalism. The doctors are a very scarce resource and therefore assets of the state, a state which has an interest in preserving as many human lives as possible.

Call is socialized medicine, but you can call any medical benefit awarded a military dependent a social benefit.

It would be fact, and certainly privatizing medicine under these circumstances would be impossible.




Here's one: Are there enough doctors to be able to properly train new doctors without medical practice degenerating to band-saw amputations within a couple of decades?
Posted Image

#17 horse608

horse608

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,997 posts

Posted 08 May 2005 - 01:08 AM

Hard Choices for Hard Times

FWIW you do not go far enough about the limited supplies, total lack replenishment capability, and lack of importation for even raw materials for refinement. This is going to produce some harsh policies on health care necessitated by scarcity rather than the rosey idealism some posters have implied or ignored. For example, whenever 2 aspirin are prescribed every 4-6 hours, this is costing inventory from a stock which is depleting fast & will not be replenished. Thus, Dr. Cottle may not prescribe for headache or PMS, rather only for serious indications such as fever caused by infections for seriously ill patients like Adama who suffered from gun shot wounds. Further, fluid replacement with 5% dextrose water and normal saline consume the stocks of dextrose & sodium chloride, which again means only seriously injured patients will receive treatment. Rationed health care to the extreme.

The President already received such a gritty & dark suggestion from the previous captain of the Astral Queen. The suggestion was to stop feeding the prisoners & withdraw all medical treatment. Roslin stopped this policy and implemented checks to prevent mysterious deaths, thus suggesting a welfare state. However, the prisoners subsequently volunteered for hazardous work which justified the welfare program. The issue still remains how to administer health care with limited resources.

Gaius Baltar Introduces Eugenics or Kodos the Executioner Returns

The facts relayed by Baltar in the operational meetings suggests the grim realities. Hugh amounts of meat, fruits & vegetables, and water are consumed on a weekly basis. Add in the medical supplies, the RTF is actually dying before our very eyes. A wacky theory is to suggest that Baltar actually serves a vital function for the RTF by luring the Cylons to quickly and painlessly execute the weaker factions of the RTF. His Hand of God will serve to purify the Colonials, or there is an immediate need to find another world now.

#18 horse608

horse608

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,997 posts

Posted 08 May 2005 - 01:14 AM

In The Mirror Darkly

During the original episode of Mirror, Mirror, Dr. McCoy claimed his sick bay was filled with uncaring technicians who took bets on the survivorship of patients without treating them but actually torturing them. Perhaps translated into the BSG universe, to serve the greater good, these techs were doing their duty to the RTF by hastening the deaths of the few to protect the many.

Look closely at these reflections & see if these dark images appear.

#19 t-Asarlai

t-Asarlai

    Mansquito

  • Members
  • 0 posts

Posted 08 May 2005 - 03:04 AM

I had thought about this and then I went back to my thoughts about Tom Zarek.
He is correct in most of the things he is saying.
Yeah, yeah... we've not heard his plan but he was trying to point out the inconsistencies of Roslin and the ludicrous notions she has of jump-starting a non-existant economy when medical concerns are probably the highest priority in the fleet.

Lemme just add.
Women that do not receive the correct amounts of nurishment don't re-produce either if I recall correctly. When they do, they mis-carry at a higher rate.

Some one needs to wake up.

Quote:

Hard Choices for Hard Times

FWIW you do not go far enough about the limited supplies, total lack replenishment capability, and lack of importation for even raw materials for refinement. This is going to produce some harsh policies on health care necessitated by scarcity rather than the rosey idealism some posters have implied or ignored...



Battlestar Galactica Spoken Here

http://www.mediablvd...p?showforum=180

#20 horse608

horse608

    Wacky Professor

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,997 posts

Posted 08 May 2005 - 03:47 AM

God's Plan

God has spoken claiming "With malice to none, and charity to all" imposing the political constraints on Roslin, Adama et al. Viewers should be able to see how evil lurks at the edges and could rise up without proper controls due to the conflicts in the BSG universe. I was simply speculating on the Mirror BSG universe. BTW where is Hoshi in the BSG universe. I want her as Cylon 9 with the black lingere with red accents.

Zarek is the literary device which plays as the counterpoint to the necessity policies the RTF government imposes. He is an artful critic but doesn't articulate any solutions, policies or compromises. Of course, incumbent Roslin doesn't advertise either as actual government policies are silent.

A hypothetical argument would be suppose the Zarek counterculture gang raised tainted beef. Madcow disease is caused by a virus which results from cow feed enriched with cow byproducts. I suppose Zarek et al would destroy the affected lot of cattle whereas Roslin et al would destroy all the cattle who received the tainted cow feed. Either case is correct from public safety, but wrong on necessity grounds. RTF food requirements mandate a less intellectually acceptable approach, namely have Baltar test for the virus and plan judiciously to save as many cows as possible. The point is simply that "charity for all" requires multiple viewpoints be examined for a comprehensive answer to be selected.

Thus, you have to really examine In the Mirror, Darkly.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users